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Posted: |
Apr 19, 2017 - 6:31 AM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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Here's an odd one. I just watched the Main Titles of The Bravados and the music is credited to Lionel Newman, yet it sounds totally Alfred Newman and I once had a CD of Newman's music with this Main Title on it. IMDB lists Lionel Newman as composer with Hugo Friedhofer and Alfred Newman uncredited. Anyone know the story behind this odd mix?
Another mystery to contemplate. I recently watched The Naked City and was greatly anticipating Rozsa's music for the pursuit scene on the bridge. However, when it came it wasn't Rozsa's music but something similar in tone and rhythm but decidely inferior. I'm still puzzling that one. Could different prints have gone out with different music?
I'll throw this one in for luck. Years ago I watched an episode of that great series The Paper Chase. It started with titles but no music, which was weird enough, but still more so was the first scene, which had a student unable to concentrate because of loud music in the next dorm. Problem was, there was no music--none whatsoever. And the episode went on right through, including party scenes with people dancing, with no music at all. What we did have, however, was a voice in the background telling the actors what to do. In other words, this episode had gone out raw, edited but with no sound editing or dubbing at all. It taught me a lot about how film is done.
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And so Lionel was given sole credit---why exactly?
From the booklet of the FSM CD:
"It was evidently a sort of gift from Alfred Newman to his brother Lionel that he would receive the credit, in spite of writing none of the music, perhaps because he supervised the recording overseas."
And Hugo Friedhofer (in the Linda Danly interview book) commented:
"Lionel is credited on screen because he had to take over the scores to Munich and re-record them over there."
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Weird that he got composing credit when he didn't even conduct. And why would he want to take full credit for something his brother and Friedhofer had done? I dunno...there was a strike at the time; I wonder if it had to do with reasons relating more to that somehow.
If he had written any of the score, the situation would make more sense, ie. Friedhofer went uncredited for his contribution to Alfred Newman's Mark of Zorro, and Alfred Newman went uncredited for his contribution to Friedhofer's Broken Arrow.
Yavar
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And so Lionel was given sole credit---why exactly?
From the booklet of the FSM CD:
"It was evidently a sort of gift from Alfred Newman to his brother Lionel that he would receive the credit, in spite of writing none of the music, perhaps because he supervised the recording overseas."
And Hugo Friedhofer (in the Linda Danly interview book) commented:
"Lionel is credited on screen because he had to take over the scores to Munich and re-record them over there."
The one factor that seems to get lost in the shuffle is that the reason it was recorded overseas was because of the 1958 Musicians Union Strike.
It's very possible that Lionel got credit because for the score was due to the fact that neither Alfred or Hugo wanted to get in trouble with the union writing the score during the strike.
The would tend to make some sense.
Ford A. Thaxton
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And so Lionel was given sole credit---why exactly?
From the booklet of the FSM CD:
"It was evidently a sort of gift from Alfred Newman to his brother Lionel that he would receive the credit, in spite of writing none of the music, perhaps because he supervised the recording overseas."
And Hugo Friedhofer (in the Linda Danly interview book) commented:
"Lionel is credited on screen because he had to take over the scores to Munich and re-record them over there."
The one factor that seems to get lost in the shuffle is that the reason it was recorded overseas was because of the 1958 Musicians Union Strike.
It's very possible that Lionel got credit because for the score was due to the fact that neither Alfred or Hugo wanted to get in trouble with the union writing the score during the strike.
The would tend to make some sense.
Ford A. Thaxton
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That's exactly what I suspected, Ford. This crediting does not seem to have been a common practice and it would seem to be a huge coincidence that it happened during the musicians strike but had nothing to do with it. I would be really surprised if this was some case of simple nepotism on Alfred Newman's part. After all, he was eschewing credit himself to boot.
There have been other instances where composers didn't take credit, like Ray Ellis for the animated Star Trek....
Yavar
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The one factor that seems to get lost in the shuffle is that the reason it was recorded overseas was because of the 1958 Musicians Union Strike.
It's very possible that Lionel got credit because for the score was due to the fact that neither Alfred or Hugo wanted to get in trouble with the union writing the score during the strike.
As Friedhofer himself describes it in the oral history book, composers at that time did not get into trouble with the union writing scores during the strike, but other people like orchestrators and conductors did:
"As a composer, the union had absolutely no jurisdiction over me. As an orchestrator, yes; as a conductor, yes. And I think also as an arranger, they would have jurisdiction, but as a composer, no, because they would have been in violation of the antitrust law if they had a completely monopolistic control over all musical activities. No, it involved players, arrangers, orchestrators, and conductors."
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Posted: |
Apr 19, 2017 - 5:02 PM
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By: |
Bob DiMucci
(Member)
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The one factor that seems to get lost in the shuffle is that the reason it was recorded overseas was because of the 1958 Musicians Union Strike.
It's very possible that Lionel got credit because for the score was due to the fact that neither Alfred or Hugo wanted to get in trouble with the union writing the score during the strike.
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As Friedhofer himself describes it in the oral history book, composers at that time did not get into trouble with the union writing scores during the strike, but other people like orchestrators and conductors did:
"As a composer, the union had absolutely no jurisdiction over me. As an orchestrator, yes; as a conductor, yes. And I think also as an arranger, they would have jurisdiction, but as a composer, no, because they would have been in violation of the antitrust law if they had a completely monopolistic control over all musical activities. No, it involved players, arrangers, orchestrators, and conductors."
I don't know what the rules were back in Friedhofer's day, but the current bylaws of the American Federation of Musicians state the following:
"SECTION 3(a). No AFM member may perform services (whether as composer,
arranger, copyist, proofreader, instrumentalist, leader, contractor,
cutter, editor, or in any other capacity): (1) where the product of the services is
intended to result in, or be embodied in, recorded music made outside of the United
States and Canada and the possessions of either."
If that was the rule during the 1958 musician's strike, Friedhofer, Alfred Newman, and Lionel Newman all would have been in violation of it for the recording of THE BRAVADOS score in Germany (assuming of course that they were all members of the AFM.)
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If that was the rule during the 1958 musician's strike, Friedhofer, Alfred Newman, and Lionel Newman all would have been in violation of it for the recording of THE BRAVADOS score in Germany (assuming of course that they were all members of the AFM.)
It seems that Friedhofer himself was no member of the AFM union in 1958 anyway.
When asked "How long did the strike last?" he replied:
"I´m not certain about that because I was among a few who bolted the union at that time and joined the Guild" [organized and led by Cecil F. Read].
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As Friedhofer himself describes it in the oral history book, composers at that time did not get into trouble with the union writing scores during the strike, but other people like orchestrators and conductors did:
If that is so, then does this mean Lionel travelled to Nurnberg ostensibly as composer, to 'supervise' the recording, whilst somebody European conducted? Or rather he conducted anonymously?
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P.S. I just saw Ray's post over on the other thread. There is another conductor indeed credited on the titles, Bernhard Kaun, so either he indeed conducted it, or was just there to smokescreen Lionel.
'Case solved I suppose.
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P.S. I just saw Ray's post over on the other thread. There is another conductor indeed credited on the titles, Bernhard Kaun, so either he indeed conducted it, or was just there to smokescreen Lionel.
Lionel Newman did not conduct on THE BRAVADOS, but Bernhard Kaun did because he was the only one who spoke German.
William H. Rosar wrote in the FSM booklet:
"Lionel Newman remained in the booth supervising the recording, which proved to be something of a challenge as he didn´t speak German and the recording engineers spoke little English. In addition to conducting, Kaun, who was bilingual, served as an interpreter, and subesequently conducted THE BARBARIAN AND THE GEISHA and THE FLY for Fox."
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Thanks Stefan.
It always pays to read the booklet again!!!!
I suppose that meant that Lionel was basically supervising the thing and could very truthfully claim he didn't go near the baton.
That means though that he needn't have been credited as composer. Unless the union rules were indeed the same back then, and Alf couldn't go to Europe for other commitments.
Of course, a bilingual interpreter might have been possible. I mean, did William Stromberg speak fluent Russian, or Nic Raine Czech, even though everybody there knows a bit of English? Could Kaun really have been the interpreter?
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Of course, a bilingual interpreter might have been possible. I mean, did William Stromberg speak fluent Russian, or Nic Raine Czech, even though everybody there knows a bit of English? Could Kaun really have been the interpreter?
Yes, Kaun could have been and also was the interpreter, because you have to consider that in fact he had been the son of a German composer and had spent his entire youth from 1902 till 1924 in Berlin (he had even orchestrated Gottfried Huppertz`monumental silent film score DIE NIBELUNGEN in 1924!). After his activities as composer and orchestrator in the USA during the 30s and 40s Kaun went back to Germany in 1953 and then was conductor of the Graunke orchestra in Munich for the next 10 years. Kaun even composed the music for two German movies during the 50s which were also recorded by the same orchestra. So Kaun was indeed very familiar with the Graunke orchestra which recorded THE BRAVADOS in 1958 which makes it clear that as interpreter he was also the best man Fox had at their disposal at that time.
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