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 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 11:40 AM   
 By:   drivingmissdaisy   (Member)

The Black Cauldron: Encore Edition
Music by Elmer Bernstein
Limited to 1000 / Shipping Now
Order: http://tinyurl.com/gt64egq

What a special recording The Black Cauldron was. The day before the film opened in 1985, Elmer Bernstein and producer George Korngold went into the studio in Salt Lake City with the Utah Symphony Orchestra to make a new recording of highlights from Elmer’s epic score. This used to happen all the time. The original soundtrack albums for so many scores, including Elmer’s The Great Escape and Hawaii, were not the actual soundtrack recordings heard in the film. They were studio recordings. The recording they produced in Utah is nothing short of a masterpiece. Follow the link to listen to audio samples.

Track Listing:
1. Escape From The Castle (2:27)
2. Taran (3:58)
3. The Witches (2:14)
4. Gurgi (3:24)
5. The Horned King (2:51)
6. The Fair Folk (3:06)
7. Hen Wen’s Vision (3:41)
8. Eilonwy (5:02)
9. Finale (4:32)


 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 1:18 PM   
 By:   Lewis&Clark   (Member)

I have the original CD. Is this one remastered?

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 1:28 PM   
 By:   JackBlu78   (Member)

I just love the cover art, I used to see the original Varese CD at a local music store back in the mid/late nineties. Those were the days.

Can't wait to get this edition.

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 1:37 PM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)


I have the original CD. Is this one remastered?


If you listen to the samples, you can tell it is brickwalled compared the original release.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 1:47 PM   
 By:   JB Fan   (Member)


If you listen to the samples, you can tell it is brickwalled compared the original release.


That's good for me for two reasons.
1st - I don't own original one, so I simply can't compare both versions.
2nd - I have some problems with my ears, so ironically - than louder music is, than it's better is for me... So this version sounds fine for me. Will order this one tomorrow.

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 2:07 PM   
 By:   Lewis&Clark   (Member)


I have the original CD. Is this one remastered?


If you listen to the samples, you can tell it is brickwalled compared the original release.


What means "brickwalled"?

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 2:10 PM   
 By:   JackBlu78   (Member)

Really I hope they didn't brickwall it! Honestly I'm going to have to stop ordering the minute these get listed. they need to stop that insanity.

film scores should have great dynmic range. UGH I suppose I can sell off this copy once it sells out. Might as well look for a used copy of the original.

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 2:19 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)


If you listen to the samples, you can tell it is brickwalled compared the original release.


That's good for me for two reasons.
1st - I don't own original one, so I simply can't compare both versions.
2nd - I have some problems with my ears, so ironically - than louder music is, than it's better is for me... So this version sounds fine for me. Will order this one tomorrow.


Talk about catering to the needs of the few!

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 4:56 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Patricia Sullivan is credited with sound work on this one. Didn't she do a good job on Starship Troopers DE? I'm disappointed to hear about brickwalling on this. Perhaps the CD itself will sound better than the compressed MP3 samples available now?

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 6:33 PM   
 By:   JackBlu78   (Member)

Same here I'm hoping it is just the sound samples that are brickwalled. They aren't CD quality for sure. Fingers crossed hopefully this new cd still has decent dynamic range I can't imagine Varese wanting to make it sound harsh.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 6:49 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

If the samples are an accurate reflection of the new CD, I'm very pleased I have the more natural-sounding original. We're talking about an excellent George Korngold production here, and the sound should be as close to his original intentions as possible – not fiddled with to make it falsely boosted and all-enveloping for someone listening on earbuds on an underground train or bus.
Hopefully for buyers, the samples are to blame and the actual CD is better.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 8:18 PM   
 By:   That Bloke   (Member)


What means "brickwalled"?


Best explanations I could find are here...

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/how-would-you-describe-brick-walling-to-a-novice.121547/

and here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

 
 Posted:   Mar 13, 2017 - 10:40 PM   
 By:   T.J. Turner   (Member)

Brickwalled refers to how an audio file appears in an audio editing app as a wave form. Instead of the normal peaks and valleys of the wave form, its looks more like a solid brick.
Its not done exactly just by raising the volume. And your volume knob won't do a thing to fix it, because basically she manipulated the audio to make all the quieter moments just as loud as the louder moments. So the flute solo will be just as loud as the brassy fanfares, harp plucks will sound just as loud as the timpani rolls, pianos and cymbal crashes will sound a bit artificial because all parts of the attack, decay, sustain and release envelope will try to have the exact same loudness with each note.
If that doesn't scare you then I have more to tell you about the physical and psychological effects brickedwalled music can have on you.

 
 Posted:   Mar 14, 2017 - 2:35 AM   
 By:   jurassicmarc   (Member)

Brickwalled refers to how an audio file appears in an audio editing app as a wave form. Instead of the normal peaks and valleys of the wave form, its looks more like a solid brick.
Its not done exactly just by raising the volume. And your volume knob won't do a thing to fix it, because basically she manipulated the audio to make all the quieter moments just as loud as the louder moments. So the flute solo will be just as loud as the brassy fanfares, harp plucks will sound just as loud as the timpani rolls, pianos and cymbal crashes will sound a bit artificial because all parts of the attack, decay, sustain and release envelope will try to have the exact same loudness with each note.
If that doesn't scare you then I have more to tell you about the physical and psychological effects brickedwalled music can have on you.


Thanks for the info. It sounds then like the same thing as using heavy EQ/Compressor on an audio file. It fits into the "Loudness War" topic which has essentially been escalating since the 90s with digital audio mixing software. There's a lot of articles on the topic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/11/the-real-reason-musics-gotten-so-loud/281707/

Some people say it's started as a competition to have the loudest songs, some musicians say that's not the case at all. I actually kind of think it is, especially now with a trend I notice of having really heavy bass/synth lines that drop, which are basically every pop song's attempt to capture the cool of the "drop" in rap/hip-hop.

Also, a lot of music doesn't feature high dynamic range in the composition to begin with - older soundtracks tended to move between dynamic ranges (John Williams especially) but now a lot of music is homogenized at a flat level.

It's too bad they did that for this album release.

 
 Posted:   Mar 14, 2017 - 3:37 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I don't know if they did it for this release, but on the whole, brickwalling sounds atrocious for any music, but it is particularly atrocious for orchestral music. Ironically, while they do this for some releases these days, I have yet to find a single person who actually prefers the compressed dynamics and distorted sound squeezes on brickwalled releases to the open and dynamic sound of more naturally mastered releases. I do not know why they do it or who thinks this is a good idea?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 14, 2017 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   jigawatts   (Member)

I've opened all 4 of the samples in Audacity, and none of them appear to be brickwalled. Also, they all sound just fine to me.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 14, 2017 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   Reximus Prime   (Member)

So does the Intrada release, not sound as good as the original Varese version?

...Or are these tracks a better listening experience, opposed to the more complete (though perhaps fractured) Intrada album?

Just trying to see why I may want this since I already have the Intrada CD... (other than the fact that I need to collect every Disney film CD)

Thanks for your discussion!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 14, 2017 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Having both, I'm biased towards the Varese re-recording because it was the version I grew up with and really got to know and love.
Just hearing the actual score on Intrada start without the Escape From The Castle track sounded wrong.
I also think the Varese recording is sequenced (out of film order) better and sounds punchier.
There's a flatness to the Intrada scores' sound. But obviously there's lots more music.
If you really like Elmer B or the score, you should go for both.
Otherwise, stick with the one you've already got.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 14, 2017 - 6:39 AM   
 By:   Kim Peterson   (Member)

So does the Intrada release, not sound as good as the original Varese version?

...Or are these tracks a better listening experience, opposed to the more complete (though perhaps fractured) Intrada album?

Just trying to see why I may want this since I already have the Intrada CD... (other than the fact that I need to collect every Disney film CD)

Thanks for your discussion!


From Intrada's site their release is the "World premiere of Elmer Bernstein's actual soundtrack for Walt Disney Pictures animation fantasy, directed by Ted Berman, Richard Rich. Not to be confused with roughly half hour of re-recorded highlights done by composer in Utah."

I see nothing wrong with the original release, but as Mr. McGann says, if you are a Bernstein fan you need to own both. I enjoy them both, just wish Intrada would have come up with better art work on their release.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 14, 2017 - 6:41 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

I've opened all 4 of the samples in Audacity, and none of them appear to be brickwalled. Also, they all sound just fine to me.

Two of them do hit the top peaks at the loud parts, and I would say it sounds a bit 'harsh' in places. It's not nearly as bad as some of the posts make it out to be however.

 
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