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 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

My recent thread on the lack of a Poseidon Adventure LP has me wondering: How much say does a composer have in whether or not there is a soundtrack album? And what it will consist of?

I imagine that the specific criteria vary greatly from situation to another, based on many factors, not the least of which would include the terms of the contract.

Let's look at a few hypothetical examples, and chime in if you can speak to any or all of these.

1. These days, film score albums are commonly composed of actual film tracks. Let's say the studio wants to put out an album. The composer says, "I don't think this music will work well as a stand-alone listen." The studio says, "Suck it up. We're putting out an album."

2. The composer wants to re-record the album. No one wants to pony up the cash to do so. The composer can either finance the sessions herself, or toss in the towel and use the film tracks.

3. John Williams doesn't want an album to be released. He has clout, so no album is released.

4. John Williams wants to re-record the album, but no one, if you can imagine, wants to pay for the sessions. Presumably, John Williams has made some money during his career, and at the very least, he can put the cost of the sessions on his credit card.

5. Henry Mancini is that rarest of birds, a successful film composer who has a dual career as a popular recording artist for RCA. He releases quasi "soundtrack" albums of many of his film scores, all re-records. Is this his idea? Is it part of the deal that when he gets a film assignment, he will record a "soundtrack" album for RCA? There was inexplicably never an album for "The Days of Wine and Roses." Was this Mancini's idea, or someone else's?

6. All involved agree there will be an album. How much of a role does the composer have in choosing tracks and sequencing the album?

7. Other situations that I am not thinking of.

8. Any combinations or variations on the above.

What sayest thou?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

These days, film score albums are commonly composed of actual film tracks.


Back in the day, scores were often re-recorded for album release, primarily to reduce costs by substituting smaller and/or foreign orchestras for the Hollywood orchestras, which would have to be paid a 100% re-use fee for their tracks. Over the years, this practice has seemingly gone by the wayside. What changed?

- Did the AFM reduce its re-use fees for soundtrack releases?
- Have the costs of foreign and non-Hollywood orchestras become commensurate with those in Hollywood?
- Are most scores recorded by foreign or non-Hollywood orchestras to begin with?
- Have soundtrack producers just decided to suck it up and pay the Hollywood orchestras their due?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 1:36 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

5. Henry Mancini is that rarest of birds, a successful film composer who has a dual career as a popular recording artist for RCA. He releases quasi "soundtrack" albums of many of his film scores, all re-records. Is this his idea? Is it part of the deal that when he gets a film assignment, he will record a "soundtrack" album for RCA? There was inexplicably never an album for "The Days of Wine and Roses." Was this Mancini's idea, or someone else's?


During the prime time of Mancini's RCA contract, a number of his film scores went unreleased. They were:

Bachelor in Paradise - MGM
The Great Impostor - Universal
Days of Wine and Roses - Warner Bros.
Mr. Hobbs Takes a Vacation - 20th Century Fox
Soldier in the Rain - Allied Artists
Dear Heart - Warner Bros.
Man's Favorite Sport? - Universal
A Shot in the Dark - United Artists
Moment To Moment - Universal
Wait Until Dark - Warner Bros.

There could be a number of reasons why these films did not get album releases:

- The studio and/or Mancini didn't want them released.
- The studio didn't want to release them on RCA Records, which would have been required under Mancini's contract.
- Mancini, who re-orchestrated and re-recorded all of his film scores for album release during this period, just didn't have time to both compose all of the films he did (22 films from 1960-68) and prepare albums for all of them as well. As it was, 12 of the films received full albums. And Mancini put out many non-film albums during that time. One source says that he was required to issue three albums per year on RCA. How much time does one man have?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 1:57 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

During the prime time of Mancini's RCA contract, a number of his film scores went unreleased...

True, but "The Days of Wine and Roses" stands out among these for two very important reasons.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 2:51 PM   
 By:   chromaparadise   (Member)

Onya,

I see this issue come up from time to time and I always think of that old video of Goldsmith at a panel in the late 80's (with Doug Fake) where he frustratingly addresses the "lack of soundtrack albums" and the "soundtrack albums with songs" issues. Some confuse what he's saying as curmudgeonly but he's really just frustrated by the lack of understanding on the part of the masses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uICgbs5406A

Sadly, any Composer who writes a score as a "Work For Hire" does not own their music--the studio does.

The Poseidon Adventure had a complicated ownership. It was financed by Fox for one of Irwin Allen's production companies "Kent Productions Inc."--Fox put up the money in exchange for distribution rights and a hefty percentage of those box office receipts, but it was an Irwin Allen product/property. So, it was Allen's decision (mostly) for the yea or nay on a soundtrack album, and until his assets were sold back to the studio after he died, he had final say. Similar to Arthur Jacobs "APJAC" Apes films and The Chairman LPs at Fox (none were done by Fox Records). Since Fox at the time was teetering in and out of insolvency on a monthly basis, a risky venture like a straight soundtrack record album for Poseidon was not of much interest to the studio.

Also, Studios viewed soundtrack LPs as a promotional tool--not as a respectful representation of a composer's hard work and talent. Something that's been rectified in recent years! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 2:57 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Sadly, any Composer who writes a score as a "Work For Hire" does not own their music--the studio does.

Thank you! I'll be sure to check out that link!

Yes, I'm guessing most of us are aware of the work made for hire issue, to some degree or another.

But in at least some cases, composers have the rights to the music they composed but not the actual recordings.

I would think that the composer's role in the soundtrack or "soundtrack" album may vary based on a number of conditions.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 3:59 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I just watched that youtube video. Someone needs to tell Jerry Goldsmith that Phil Spector has stolen his identity!

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 8:25 PM   
 By:   Jeyl   (Member)

I say have it both ways. Like the two-disc sets of old. Album presentation and complete presentation. Most of the expanded re-releases have been that doing that anyways. Only major exception was La-La Land's Batman Forever. A disc that comes with an Album presentation, and an 'expanded' album presentation. Ugh.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 9:51 PM   
 By:   townerbarry   (Member)

Onya,

I see this issue come up from time to time and I always think of that old video of Goldsmith at a panel in the late 80's (with Doug Fake) where he frustratingly addresses the "lack of soundtrack albums" and the "soundtrack albums with songs" issues. Some confuse what he's saying as curmudgeonly but he's really just frustrated by the lack of understanding on the part of the masses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uICgbs5406A

Sadly, any Composer who writes a score as a "Work For Hire" does not own their music--the studio does.

The Poseidon Adventure had a complicated ownership. It was financed by Fox and Warner Brothers as an Irwin Allen Production--they gave the money to Irwin Allen's production company in exchange for distribution rights to certain territories and a hefty percentage of those box office receipts. So, it was Allen's decision (mostly) for the soundtrack album, and until his assets were sold back to the studio after he died, he had final say. Similar to Arthur Jacobs "APJAC" Apes films and The Chairman LPs at Fox (none were done by Fox Records). Since Fox at the time was teetering in and out of insolvency on a monthly basis, a risky venture like a straight soundtrack record album for Poseidon was not of much interest to the studio.

Also, Studios viewed soundtrack LPs as a promotional tool--not as a respectful representation of a composer's hard work and talent. Something that's been rectified in recent years! smile


Poseidon Adventures was 100% 20 Century Fox...The Towering Inferno was two Studios..20 Century and Warner Brothers...Irwin Allen Production went over to WB in 1977..and Irwin Blessed WB with The Swarm..lol

Warner Brothers bought the rights to The Tower? Or The Glass Inferno...Irwin asked for the two heads of 20Th and WB to come together with one movie. .it would be suicide to produce two films. 20Th took domestic grosses..WB took in foreign...there are two AMC backstorys explaining how Irwin got the job done.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2017 - 11:39 PM   
 By:   chromaparadise   (Member)

Poseidon Adventures was 100% 20 Century Fox...

Corrected entry above. I remembered a co-production credit on the end of Poseidon and confused it with Towering Inferno. Poseidon was financed by Fox, but the final credit above the distributor (Fox) was Allen's production company "Kent Productions Inc." as producer.

As many may already know, Irwin Allen was one of many producers on the Fox lot in the 60's and 70's. Like Arthur Jacobs and his "APJAC Productions", you'll find the same credits at the end of all his Fox films.

Check out the book "The Studio" by John Gregory Dunne. Sheds a lot of light on this era.

 
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