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 Posted:   Jul 30, 2016 - 9:25 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

One effective device that George Duning seems to favor is the minor 13th chord.

In a minor 7th chord, the 7th interval typically wants to resolve down a half-step to the third of the subsequent dominant 7th chord. In a D minor 7th chord, for example, the minor 7th - a C - typically resolves down to a B - the third in a G7 chord.

Staying with the D minor 7th example: In extending the minor 7th chord to include the 9th, the 11th, and 13th, the B is included in the chord simultaneously with the C. The resulting tension, when combined with the right orchestration, produces a poignant, bittersweet sound.

Duning often uses this device in the more poignant passages of his scores.

If you have access to a piano or keyboard, you can play this chord, beginning with a D in the bass and playing every other white note above to a B. Bottom to top, D, F, A, C, E, G, B.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2016 - 9:30 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


I love this sound! Thanks!
Lukas

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2016 - 9:47 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

Is this the note progression which is typically played on the harp within Duning soundtracks?

[please excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong - since I don't read or play music ... ]

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2016 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

[please excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong - since I don't read or play music ... ]

Your impressive knowledge belies this!

Is this the note progression which is typically played on the harp within Duning soundtracks?

I believe there is a track on "Bell Book and Candle" where the harp arpeggiates this chord, although it may be the relative major chord related to the minor. I will have to check.

Elswhere, he typically orchestrates this chord with high-register strings playing the upper harmonies.

I hear Duning use this chord quite a bit in "Picnic" and "Then Came Bronson," less so in "Suzie Wong" and "BBC."

Of course, hearing the chord in isolation as I described does not offer the full impact. You have to hear it in relation to what precedes and follows.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2016 - 11:25 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Is this the note progression which is typically played on the harp within Duning soundtracks?

At the end of track 6 on "Bell Book and Candle" at around the 5:04 mark, yes, you can hear the harp arpeggiating the upper five (or more) notes of this chord. Technically, this may be a related chord, a dominant suspended 7th with the 17th (!) on top. In the example that I used in the first post, this would be like adding a G in the bass below the D, but keeping all of the other notes the same.

You hear it right at the beginning of the Picnic theme also.

For a composer who uses this chord in a different context, Edwin Astley creates a cool, modernist sound with this chord. You can hear it in his ITC logo and some tracks on "The Saint."

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2016 - 11:56 PM   
 By:   finder4545   (Member)

One effective device that George Duning seems to favor is the minor 13th chord.

In a minor 7th chord, the 7th interval typically wants to resolve down a half-step to the third of the subsequent dominant 7th chord. In a D minor 7th chord, for example, the minor the 7th - a C - typically resolves to a B - the third in a G7 chord.

Staying with the D minor 7th example: In extending the minor 7th chord to include the 9th, the 11th, and 13th, the B is included in the chord simultaneously with the C. The resulting tension, when combined with the right orchestration, produces a poignant, bittersweet sound.

Duning often uses this device in the more poignant passages of his scores.

If you have access to a piano or keyboard, you can play this chord, beginning with a D in the bass and playing every other white note above to a B. Bottom to top, D, F, A, C, E, G, B.


Once I entered a bar for a glass of water. I was thirsty. The barman asked: what a kind of H2O? There is H2O with NaCl, with C12H22911, with CO2, etc. etc., mentioning 44 variants, complete with detailed formulas.
Barman, please! I only want a glass of water!
By now, when I want a glass of Duning, I put a disc and play it, leaving the music formulary in the library.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 6:35 AM   
 By:   Broughtfan   (Member)

It's a nice sound, though I tend to think of it as two chords: C major 7 over D minor (Cmaj7/Dmin)

Starting with the Duning chord, here's something you can try at home for fun:

Cmaj7/Dmin: D F A C E G B
Cmin7/Db: Db F Ab C Eb G Bb C (second C added for resolution)
Dmaj7/Cmaj7 or D+7/Cmaj7: C E G B D F# A C# (change A to A# for second chord)

Bonus chord (just for you folks on the board):

Take the C whole tone scale: C D E F#/Gb G#/Ab A#/Bb (C)

From top note (C) down build as an ascending series of minor sevenths (starting with second lowest C on piano):

C Bb/A# Ab/G# Gb/F# E D C

Sound familiar? (don't let the sound "alien"-ate you).

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 8:22 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

It's a nice sound, though I tend to think of it as two chords: C major 7 over D minor (Cmaj7/Dmin)

Starting with the Duning chord, here's something you can try at home for fun:

Cmaj7/Dmin: D F A C E G B
Cmin7/Db: Db F Ab C Eb G Bb C (second C added for resolution)
Dmaj7/Cmaj7 or D+7/Cmaj7: C E G B D F# A C# (change A to A# for second chord)


Your nomenclature was throwing me off, but that is a very Mancini-esque turnaround. The Db major 7 functions as a substitute for the V7 chord.

There is a track on one of the Peter Gunn albums - I think the second album - where the final major 7th chord includes the sharp root note on the top of the chord.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   Broughtfan   (Member)

It's a nice sound, though I tend to think of it as two chords: C major 7 over D minor (Cmaj7/Dmin)

Starting with the Duning chord, here's something you can try at home for fun:

Cmaj7/Dmin: D F A C E G B
Cmin7/Db: Db F Ab C Eb G Bb C (second C added for resolution)
Dmaj7/Cmaj7 or D+7/Cmaj7: C E G B D F# A C# (change A to A# for second chord)



Your nomenclature was throwing me off, but that is a very Mancini-esque turnaround. The Db major 7 functions as a substitute for the V7 chord.

There is a track on one of the Peter Gunn albums - I think the second album - where the final major 7th chord includes the sharp root note on the top of the chord.


Exactly right on all points. I think the "Peter Gunn" track you're talking about may be "A Quiet Gass", the sharp four/eleven tending to be one of Mancini's late fifties/early sixties trademark sounds, as in one of the "Pink Panther" ballad tracks ("Champagne and Quail"?), which ends with a C6 in the left hand, B minor (first inversion) in the right: C E G A/ D F# B. One of my all time favorite chords.*

* - Cmaj9 add 6, #11?

 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   finder4545   (Member)

OnyaBirry, Broughtfan, I think your talent cannot be lost and deserves attention! I think you both can rebuild old symphonic scores after simply listening the film track, even if very convoluted and obscured by dialogue and effects. I would be anxious to listen to such a kind of reconstructions.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I would be anxious to listen to such a kind of reconstructions.

What does the gig pay?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)



I think the "Peter Gunn" track you're talking about may be "A Quiet Gass", the sharp four/eleven tending to be one of Mancini's late fifties/early sixties trademark sounds, as in one of the "Pink Panther" ballad tracks ("Champagne and Quail"?), which ends with a C6 in the left hand, B minor (first inversion) in the right: C E G A/ D F# B. One of my all time favorite chords.*


That is similar to the last chord on the Peter Gunn theme. The last chord is a F major 7 sharp 11, or a G chord over an F chord, and then the French horns hit the sixth interval and slide up an octave. Combined with Shelly Manne's killer drum fill at the end, that is one of my all-time favorite endings on any track ever.

Yes, I think it is "A Quiet Gas." What is interesting is that while Mancini loved to end tracks with a major 7 sharp 11, it is interesting that this track includes the sharp root on the end. I guess that would be a sharp 15th? Not a term you come across very often.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 12:09 PM   
 By:   roy phillippe   (Member)

One effective device that George Duning seems to favor is the minor 13th chord.

In a minor 7th chord, the 7th interval typically wants to resolve down a half-step to the third of the subsequent dominant 7th chord. In a D minor 7th chord, for example, the minor the 7th - a C - typically resolves to a B - the third in a G7 chord.

Staying with the D minor 7th example: In extending the minor 7th chord to include the 9th, the 11th, and 13th, the B is included in the chord simultaneously with the C. The resulting tension, when combined with the right orchestration, produces a poignant, bittersweet sound.

Duning often uses this device in the more poignant passages of his scores.

If you have access to a piano or keyboard, you can play this chord, beginning with a D in the bass and playing every other white note above to a B. Bottom to top, D, F, A, C, E, G, B.


In major it is D F# A C E G# B. It's often called the "Stravinsky chord" because if its frequent use in the "Rite Of Spring". In jazz it's a D13 #11 chord. Often used as the end chord in big band charts due to its poly-tonality. Sometimes the 9th is sharped also for the Major/minor rub. Then it becomes a D13 #9 #11 chord. In short, an E major chord over a D7 chord.
It can also be found in the works of Debussy and Ravel.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2016 - 1:45 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


In major it is D F# A C E G# B. It's often called the "Stravinsky chord" because if its frequent use in the "Rite Of Spring". In jazz it's a D13 #11 chord. Often used as the end chord in big band charts due to its poly-tonality. Sometimes the 9th is sharped also for the Major/minor rub. Then it becomes a D13 #9 #11 chord. In short, an E major chord over a D7 chord.
It can also be found in the works of Debussy and Ravel.


Yes. I would argue that the main difference between this chord and the minor 13th described earlier is that, in the case of the D7 with the sharp 11 - the E over the D7 chord - the primary tension takes place between the #11 and the fifth, the latter of which is the least important note of the chord and frequently omitted. As a result, this tends to be the more stable chord of the two.

The primary tension in the minor 13th occurs occurs between the 7th the 13th, both important notes to the character of the chord.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 15, 2016 - 12:57 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

In his stunning arrangement of "Autumn in New York" for Sinatra, Billy May includes what I believe to be a deliberate nod to Duning in the intro:

 
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