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Posted: |
May 6, 2016 - 4:43 PM
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By: |
Nexus6BT
(Member)
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Finally got to listen to the soundtrack. Seeing the film tonight but as a stand alone listen one thing is glaringly absent. Where the hell is the awesome Cap theme he wrote in WS!??? I mean for me it is perhaps the best theme in the mcu.... and he chose NOT to bring it back?? Aside from that it is a good effort. Amazingly I think the WS is a better score. More dynamic creatively with better themes. Maybe I'll change my tune after seeing the film.
Haven't heard the soundtrack by itself yet, but I just saw the movie, and I barely heard any references to the Winter Soldier score at all. Just the accented triplet action motif a few times, which was pretty generic to begin with. I wasn't even a big fan of Jackman's Cap theme (I greatly prefer Silvestri's), but even I was disappointed that it wasn't in Civil War.
That's been my biggest disappointment with this franchise. Outside of the repurposing of Silvestri's Avengers themes in Age of Ultron and a few other notable instances, there has been very little thematic continuity across the films. I know Wagnerian leitmotif isn't appropriate for every series, but if any modern movie franchise outside of Star Wars just cries out for it, it's the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And it's all the more disappointing because most of these characters had fairly distinctive themes established in at least one of their solo movies.
I realize they'd have to pay each of the composers for subsequent uses of their themes, but how much money have these movies been making?
As for the Civil War score, I thought it was adequate, but fairly bland and unremarkable. Movie is pretty good overall, though.
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Since the film has now essentially opened everywhere, does anyone want to take a stab at which tracks on the album (if any) where used to compile the end credits suite?
I think there is a piece in the end credits that's not included on the album. It's the music after the 1st additional scene. I watched the film last night and I don't seem to be finding it on the album...
It starts with the fanfare of the Larger Than Life track, but I'm not sure how long that cue plays and what other cues play after it, but they are most likely found on the album.
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Posted: |
May 9, 2016 - 10:35 PM
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By: |
desplatfan1
(Member)
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That's been my biggest disappointment with this franchise. Outside of the repurposing of Silvestri's Avengers themes in Age of Ultron and a few other notable instances, there has been very little thematic continuity across the films..
You don't think that might be on purpose? That maybe not having 10.000 themes playing every 5 seconds is better? Especially in Civil War, where Jackman apparently decided to be neutral, and write a new main theme (similar to a motif from The Avengers) to represent the struggle between the Avengers (even though he wrote a new Spider-Man theme, a motif for WOODWINDS for Zemo that's not a generic villain theme, plus bringing back the Winter Soldier motif and using Beck's Antman theme) instead of fulfilling the wimps of two or three people on the internet who care about thematic intercourse (which it's has been barely done in superhero scores)?
Found the score to be better than TWS, more much orchestral and closer to Jackman's X-Men. The use of adult and boys choirs gives the score a dramatic feel. And you can tell that Jackman wrote most it unlike TWS where 3 additional composers did most of the score.
But yeah, people don't care about it, because it's all about themes. People don't care about the diversity of styles, genres that the MCU has brought (especially compared to DC's scores which they're stuck with Zimmer's drones and one note themes). People complains about lack of themes when it works for them (like in Harry Potter and here), in other cases because they keep those themes (like in The Hunger Games and The Maze Runner). Having half of the first Avengers (where Silvestri used his Captain America theme) tracked on Ultron wasn't enough, Tyler using Cap America's theme in Thor 2, plus two of his own themes in Ultron (besides having Elfman and two co-composers to rework the Avengers theme to turn it much more malleable) wasn't enough. Phase 1's films temptracked with Tyler's music wasn't enough. Beck reusing the Avengers and Falcon themes in Antman wasn't enough.
You might complain that it's Marvel's fault, since Whedon doesn't like themes, Feige was too in love with Tyler to have him score half of Phase 2 after temptracking Phase 1 with his music, and having Tyler to score Furious 7 made Marvel to reboot the franchise musically for Phase 3 and disregard Tyler's themes and styles. But acting like children for something so insignificant like themes in film music (which if it was all about, then 90% of all existing film music would be terrible) it's annoying and a disservice to the work these composers have been doing, and their efforts to make their best works to serve the films they're scoring (which after all, they can work perfectly with or without themes to be shove into people's faces). And it's no different from pop music fans complaining because a song doesn't become a instant hit and they want songs that become ICONIC and MEMORABLE and BREAKGROUNDING, without matter if they're good at all (Javier Navarrete said that if people remembers themes then they might not be good).
Film music is not pop music, Hans Zimmer and John Williams might have spoiled two generations (old farts from the 70's and Millennials) to think that, but it's not what it should be. Film music should be about everything a composer might have at the hand to support a movie, whetever it's themes, orchestras, electronics, genres, styles, etc. You can like it or not, but it's how it always has been since film music was nothing but just random notes on a piano, and it's still is, in the way a film can be scored of 10.000 different ways.
In that way, Civil War and the rest of the MCU scores works, even with their cons and pros, they're the most diverse musical franchise after Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, and they prove that because it's a superhero score, it doesn't need to sound like Superman (check the people on Internet who think that TWS is one of the best Marvel scores and the Winter Soldier motif one of the best themes of the scores). So move over it, and let people to enjoy this (and let Giacchino and any other future MCU composer to make their on it's own way, not yours).
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Posted: |
May 10, 2016 - 11:22 PM
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By: |
batroc
(Member)
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That's been my biggest disappointment with this franchise. Outside of the repurposing of Silvestri's Avengers themes in Age of Ultron and a few other notable instances, there has been very little thematic continuity across the films..
You don't think that might be on purpose? That maybe not having 10.000 themes playing every 5 seconds is better? Especially in Civil War, where Jackman apparently decided to be neutral, and write a new main theme (similar to a motif from The Avengers) to represent the struggle between the Avengers (even though he wrote a new Spider-Man theme, a motif for WOODWINDS for Zemo that's not a generic villain theme, plus bringing back the Winter Soldier motif and using Beck's Antman theme) instead of fulfilling the wimps of two or three people on the internet who care about thematic intercourse (which it's has been barely done in superhero scores)?
Found the score to be better than TWS, more much orchestral and closer to Jackman's X-Men. The use of adult and boys choirs gives the score a dramatic feel. And you can tell that Jackman wrote most it unlike TWS where 3 additional composers did most of the score.
But yeah, people don't care about it, because it's all about themes. People don't care about the diversity of styles, genres that the MCU has brought (especially compared to DC's scores which they're stuck with Zimmer's drones and one note themes). People complains about lack of themes when it works for them (like in Harry Potter and here), in other cases because they keep those themes (like in The Hunger Games and The Maze Runner). Having half of the first Avengers (where Silvestri used his Captain America theme) tracked on Ultron wasn't enough, Tyler using Cap America's theme in Thor 2, plus two of his own themes in Ultron (besides having Elfman and two co-composers to rework the Avengers theme to turn it much more malleable) wasn't enough. Phase 1's films temptracked with Tyler's music wasn't enough. Beck reusing the Avengers and Falcon themes in Antman wasn't enough.
You might complain that it's Marvel's fault, since Whedon doesn't like themes, Feige was too in love with Tyler to have him score half of Phase 2 after temptracking Phase 1 with his music, and having Tyler to score Furious 7 made Marvel to reboot the franchise musically for Phase 3 and disregard Tyler's themes and styles. But acting like children for something so insignificant like themes in film music (which if it was all about, then 90% of all existing film music would be terrible) it's annoying and a disservice to the work these composers have been doing, and their efforts to make their best works to serve the films they're scoring (which after all, they can work perfectly with or without themes to be shove into people's faces). And it's no different from pop music fans complaining because a song doesn't become a instant hit and they want songs that become ICONIC and MEMORABLE and BREAKGROUNDING, without matter if they're good at all (Javier Navarrete said that if people remembers themes then they might not be good).
Film music is not pop music, Hans Zimmer and John Williams might have spoiled two generations (old farts from the 70's and Millennials) to think that, but it's not what it should be. Film music should be about everything a composer might have at the hand to support a movie, whetever it's themes, orchestras, electronics, genres, styles, etc. You can like it or not, but it's how it always has been since film music was nothing but just random notes on a piano, and it's still is, in the way a film can be scored of 10.000 different ways.
In that way, Civil War and the rest of the MCU scores works, even with their cons and pros, they're the most diverse musical franchise after Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, and they prove that because it's a superhero score, it doesn't need to sound like Superman (check the people on Internet who think that TWS is one of the best Marvel scores and the Winter Soldier motif one of the best themes of the scores). So move over it, and let people to enjoy this (and let Giacchino and any other future MCU composer to make their on it's own way, not yours).
How can u "tell" this from the WINTER SOLDIER score? There are TWO additional composers listed on CIVIL WAR also so who knows who "really" wrote what...?
IMO TRULY great film scores back up the film, ENHANCE the film AND work as memorable pieces of music also. Herman, Goldsmith, Barry, Williams, Morricone, etc, in fact, almost ALL the favorite composers on this site did this over and over in their scoring...
"Old Farts" and "Millennials"? Really? I think Zimmer and Williams are currently the two most sought after & highest paid composers in the business right now, with their "pop music" (????!!!!) sensibilities. Gee, I haven't heard music pop music that sounds like Zimmer's SHERLOCK HOLMES scores, by the way...
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Film music is not pop music, Hans Zimmer and John Williams might have spoiled two generations (old farts from the 70's and Millennials) to think that, but it's not what it should be.
Got it.
Zimmer and Williams are pop music.
People who like themes are old farts.
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