I couldn't agree more. If every single staffer that sharpened a pencil at ILM gets listed (to use them as an example for the moment), then it's only fair that the score players get it too.
You two will recall that back in the 60s it wasnt uncommon for the orchestra to get a credit - eg Muir Matheson conducts the Royal symphony orchestra. But as you say, i cant recall seeing any roll call of players on a credit.
Occasionally star performers do get a credit. Lead violinist, organist etc but thats rare.
You two will recall that back in the 60s it wasn't uncommon for the orchestra to get a credit - eg Muir Matheson conducts the Royal symphony orchestra. But as you say, i cant recall seeing any roll call of players on a credit.
In my experience, today, if the music is played by an established orchestra they almost always are mentioned in the credits, along with the conductor. If it's just a contracted pick-up orchestra, then at least the recording studio gets mentioned. I've also seen smaller ensembles (usually under 20 players) who all all mentioned by name. But that almost never happens for large orchestras. Here are the on-screen music credits for THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING.
Howard Shore (Mus comp, orch & cond) Paul Broucek (Exec in charge of mus) Lori Silfen (Mus business affairs) Suzana Peric (Mus ed) Nancy Allen (Mus ed) Michael Tremante (Assoc mus prod) John Kurlander (Rec by) Peter Cobbin at Abbey Road Studios (Mixed by) The London Philharmonic Orchestra (Mus performed by) New Zealand Symphony Orchestra (Mus performed by) The London Voices (Mus performed by) The London Oratory School Schola (Mus performed by) Terry Edwards (Choir master) Michael McCarthy (Choir master) Igelese Ete (Choir master) Enya (Featured vocalist) Elisabeth Fraser (Featured vocalist) Edward Ross (Featured vocalist) Mabel Faletolu (Featured vocalist) Ruth Cornes (Mus contractor) Isobel Griffiths (Mus contractor) Colosseum, Watford (Rec at) Air Lyndhurst (Rec at) Abbey Road Studios, London (Rec at) Wellington Town Hall, New Zealand (Rec at)
Don't get me wrong, Thor and jenkwombat, I agree that credits are way long. But I also believe that the score players are far more important to a film than the caterers and accountants!
Don't get me wrong, Thor and jenkwombat, I agree that credits are way long. But I also believe that the score players are far more important to a film than the caterers and accountants!
Agreed....
....and caterers and accountants shouldn't be listed either, it seems to me. I'm not trying to be mean or cold-heartedly exclude people, but when does it end?
Before the late seventies, (correct me if I'm wrong here, Mr. DiMucci!) only a film's cast and the department heads ever received screen credit. Many times those names were at the front end of the movie, and only the cast received credit after "The End." Wasn't Star Wars the first film to include that massive list of names at the finale? But now that it's the norm, I believe that everyone who deserves credit should receive credit. Most filmgoers are already driving home by the time all those names are rolling, and a mere few of us like to remain to read all the names, while listening to the score again. The names of the individual musicians would add just a few seconds to the entire list.
Well, I'm sure eventually they will list every orchestra member. And thankfully these days, I'm watching most films on Blu-Ray or DVD, so I can just take out the disc once my eyes start to glaze over. Which is somewhere around the 100th name in the closing credits, unless the music is really excellent....
Before the late seventies, (correct me if I'm wrong here, Mr. DiMucci!) only a film's cast and the department heads ever received screen credit. Many times those names were at the front end of the movie, and only the cast received credit after "The End." Wasn't Star Wars the first film to include that massive list of names at the finale?
That's pretty much true. If you compare the credits on STAR WARS with, say, those on THE TOWERING INFERNO, the ones for STAR WARS are nearly twice as long. This is due primarily to the number of personnel listed for special effects--about 5 for TOWERING INFERNO vs. about 80 for STAR WARS.
As special effects in films grew, and more companies became involved, the credits mushroomed. And not just with creative people or department heads, but with company executives and every artist, clean-up person, modeler, or person that moved a mouse or punched a keyboard. This also spread to other departments. Set Decoration includes every carpenter, painter, and landscaper. Costumes includes every seamstress.
And STAR WARS still didn't list craft services people or drivers. All that came later, along with every stunt person, runner, stand-in, hair stylist, prop man, and boom operator.
Excluding the cast, STAR WARS listed about 160 individual credits. THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING lists about 1,200.
"I think every orchestra member should be named in the film's final credits!"
Ah, remember the "old days", so few credits that they'd be all at the start of the film, hence the title music, often the best cue in the film, & at the end, just..."The End". I used to sit there for all the end titles while all around me got up & left, but when the end roller got to about eight minutes long I gave up.
"I think every orchestra member should be named in the film's final credits!"
Ah, remember the "old days", so few credits that they'd be all at the start of the film, hence the title music, often the best cue in the film, & at the end, just..."The End". I used to sit there for all the end titles while all around me got up & left, but when the end roller got to about eight minutes long I gave up.
Same with me. A couple decades ago, I used to sit for the entire movie. Now, I'm up and out of the theatre as soon as the end credits start to roll. I really couldn't care less about reading all the names. I don't know who any of them are, so why should I care?
Yes, they should. End credits should list all the artists involved in the creative process. Drivers, food caterer's, etc, no. That's just BS. Probably part of the contract process now, when hiring third party services. Secretaries need to go too. Also I have no problem with long end credits. Ideally this is where the composer could shine without any limitations and create an original suite of his film score.
Also I have no problem with long end credits. Ideally this is where the composer could shine without any limitations and create an original suite of his film score.
That's usually a job for the music editor to do a cut & paste job from the main score to cover the end roller, even then, after about 3-4 minutes they usually give up & bung on a pop song.
Also I have no problem with long end credits. Ideally this is where the composer could shine without any limitations and create an original suite of his film score.
That's usually a job for the music editor to do a cut & paste job from the main score to cover the end roller, even then, after about 3-4 minutes they usually give up & bung on a pop song.
It's turned into a cut and paste job, but composers used to write glorious end credit suites.
I mean…COME ON now... The catering company gets a mention! The accountants get a mention!
I think every orchestra member should be named in the film's final credits!
Sorry for going off topic, but Christopher K triggered some things in my mind that I've been thinking about for a while. In my opinion, the musicians who clock-in & clock-out of recording studios to perform music for films may not necessarily like the films and/or the music they are working on. To them, it's a job and a paycheck. Another credit for their union pension plan. Their true labor of loves might be to perform in a nightclub or with a string quartet, for example.
Can any FSM member recall if any musicians who have performed film music are (or have ever) registered here @ FSM's board as members and as fans of film music? Have such persons ever described their day-to-day routines and experiences as performers working on film music?
