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Posted: |
Jul 5, 2015 - 8:04 PM
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By: |
Ludwig van
(Member)
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Dear Collective Wisdom,
I'm not sure if this was already discussed at some point, but I'm wondering if we could construct a list of leitmotif statements which seem not to signify their original association, and instead seem to have been used for one or more other reasons. One example is the appearance of Leia's theme when Obi-Wan is struck down in STAR WARS (1977), where the leitmotif was used because it has the right emotional content and not because of any highlighting of Leia in the scene. This would be a case of what I would call an "emotionally-motivated" leitmotif.
Another example would be the crucifixion scene in BEN-HUR (1959), where we hear the Friendship and Hatred themes long after Messala has been killed off and the leitmotifs instead could be heard as taking on a larger meaning of friendship and hatred in the world rather than only in Judah and Messala's relationship. This could be understood as a leitmotif of "expanded association," meaning that the leitmotif's meaning has not been overruled by other concerns, but rather enlarged to a broader category of the original meaning.
I realize that in the latter case, and many others, the decision to use a certain theme may not be that of the composer. Let me clarify that I am only interested in the effect the leitmotif has in the film rather than whose decision it was to use it in the scene.
Thanks in advance!
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Another example would be the crucifixion scene in BEN-HUR (1959), where we hear the Friendship and Hatred themes long after Messala has been killed off and the leitmotifs instead could be heard as taking on a larger meaning of friendship and hatred in the world rather than only in Judah and Messala's relationship. This could be understood as a leitmotif of "expanded association," meaning that the leitmotif's meaning has not been overruled by other concerns, but rather enlarged to a broader category of the original meaning.
I realize that in the latter case, and many others, the decision to use a certain theme may not be that of the composer.
In that latter case it wasn't indeed Rozsa's choice. The 'Aftermath' cues were various alternative takes on the Messala death scene, but one got shunted by a music editor to the later scene without Rozsa's permission. Two never recorded tracks, 'Calvary' and 'Afterthoughts' belong after the 'Golgotha' cue, but that scene was to be silent, though more may have been filmed and deleted.
Essentially, the composer is using an INTERNAL landscape to negotiate rather than the external Mickey Mouse commentary in such examples. We know that in Lucas' mythic template taken from Joseph Campbell, Leia represents the 'anima' or Beatrice-like stimulus for the soul. She provides the motivation for Skywalker's actions at first, before he gets the 'Force', and that emotional propellant can be carried by the tune.
In a similar vein with 'Ben-Hur' though, the ORIGINAL 'Miracle and Finale' (never recorded at the original sessions), was totally different as the scoresheets show. The original version can be heard in the London Decca performance with the NPO, and in Kunzel's Telarc album. That version actually opens with the galley slaves theme in high hysterical woodwinds against all sorts of dissonant glisses. That builds up to the Christ theme, and then the swinging bell figure that we know from the film. Obviously the idea is that Judah is having his past 'washed away' in some redemptive act, and horrors of the galley obliterated and healed, just as the lepers, who spent that time sick, are healed. That's a great example, no galley slaves in sight, but the 'emotion' of that catharsis. But it never made it to the recording sessions so it's not on the FSM.
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In this YouTube vid that someone's put up of the NPO 'Miracle and Finale' you can clearly hear, for the first 20 seconds of the piece, the galley slaves' theme, suggesting a washing and catharsis from pain and the past. It compares directly in terms of line, melodically, with the later part of the symphonic 'Rowing of the Galley Slaves':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGX07b4vvlE
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I strongly suspect that the emotional effect on the scene is the primary concern in all cases, and in the SW example, it was indeed Williams' decision. Lucas made a very astute leitmotif suggestion in an earlier part of the score which made for a famous moment, when he recommended using the Kenobi/Force motif for the twin-sunset scene.
We have discussed this topic before and a couple other SW examples I remember are [1] Yoda's theme turning up as action music near the end of TESB during the shootout/escape from the cloud city, and [2] the tune which Williams designated as a "rebel fanfare," which many fans consider an imperial motif (perhaps because of the way it was used in the radio dramatization) was featured prominently when Luke turned the tables on Jabba's henchmen at the sarlacc pit.
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Posted: |
Jul 6, 2015 - 12:13 AM
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By: |
jenkwombat
(Member)
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I strongly suspect that the emotional effect on the scene is the primary concern in all cases, and in the SW example, it was indeed Williams' decision. Lucas made a very astute leitmotif suggestion in an earlier part of the score which made for a famous scene, when he recommended using the Kenobi/Force motif for the twin-sunset scene.
We have discussed this topic before and a couple other SW examples I remember are [1] Yoda's theme turning up as action music near the end of TESB during the firefight/escape from the cloud city, and [2] the tune which Williams designated as a "rebel fanfare," which many fans consider an imperial motif (perhaps because of the way it was used in the radio dramatization) was featured prominently when Luke turned the tables on Jabba's henchmen at the sarlacc pit.
RE: The Binary Sunset scene---
Also, it is Luke's destiny to be a Jedi. It seems only natural to me that the "Force" theme play as he yearns for adventure and to break away from his boring home life.
RE: Leia's Theme at Obi-Wan's demise---
Perhaps this was used at this point because the story was now shifting back to Leia and her story arc, (i.e. the Death Star plans, etc.) along with the theme's emotional impact.
RE: Yoda's Theme in Cloud City---
Perhaps it represents what Luke has gained from his training(?). Just a guess. I must admit I'm stumped a little by this one as well, although I've grown to like its use here (somewhat), perhaps because I'm so used to hearing it at this spot.
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Posted: |
Jul 6, 2015 - 1:57 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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Yes, this is a topic that has appeared a few times over the years.
From the days of Wagner, leitmotifs were never intended to be just "Pawlow's Dogs", but rather a dynamic artform that was semantically expanded when needed. Think, for example, on the structural similarity between the motif for the Nibelungen ring and the motif for Valhalla between the first and second scene in DAS RHEINGOLD. This similarity has narrative causes: Alberich's ring symbolizes -- and is a tool for -- an executive power that is made possible because he has forsworn love. Valhalla symbolizes the gods' need to rule in safety, also an example of executive power. The identity seems to be that power is chosen, and love is sacrificed to make that power possible.
Film music is FULL of similar examples. In LOTR, Gollum shares the theme with the 'history of the ring' itself because they are so tightely knit together. The Fellowship theme appears in TTT and ROTK even if the fellowship itself is disbanded. It does so because the mission is still the same, and the group continues to work 'in absentia'.
STAR WARS too, and examples have been provided above. Perhaps the most obvious example of 'semantic expansion' (beyond the sunset/Force/Luke connection) is the fact that Darth Vader and the Empire share the same theme -- Vader being the true face of the Empire, even more than the Emperor himself (who has his own theme).
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Posted: |
Jul 6, 2015 - 10:06 AM
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By: |
Ludwig van
(Member)
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Great replies so far. Could anyone provide a link to older threads on this topic? Can't seem to track them down on Google because I don't know what they were called.
Please do keep suggestions coming, from any period of film, even from the 30s and 40s if you know of any.
And thanks for the historical background on some of these inconsistencies - fascinating indeed. I am interested in any instances regardless of how they came to be, so please do add anything that comes to mind. I suppose the thing is that, as the audience, we can find meaning in a theme even if it is used without much thought, imposed by those other than the composer, etc. Of course, sometimes that meaning is a bit tenuous and perhaps doesn't amount to much, but nonetheless I am interested in any instances you can think of.
One more to add to the list - in THE GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL, the theme we usually hear for the Zubrowkan Militia is heard again when it is announced that the valuable painting in Madame D's possession has been bequeathed to Gustave. I understand this as an expanded association of the theme from the militia to those who antagonize Gustave in general since of course the militia form no part of this scene.
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Am I imagining things or was Goldsmith's "Klingon" theme in ST:TMP used in later entries for things that weren't Klingons? What was the story behind that again (if I'm right about it in the first place)?
No. Goldsmith used the theme only for Klingons, though I thought that usage became very clunky in the "Next Generation" movies, where suddenly Worf and Worf alone had a theme just because it was associated with his species.
Thanks Schiffy. That must be the example I was thinking of.
I also agree that the leitmotif technique can, and has done many times, embrace concepts as well as characters. Very often we hardly notice it on a conscious level because it doesn't really have to be a bold, developed theme. It's not like we're blasting out Darth Vader's theme every time a spaceship, any spaceship, appears. That would be "inconsisent" in my book.
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