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 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 7:03 AM   
 By:   DOGBELLE   (Member)


http://nypost.com/2015/06/24/gone-with-the-wind-should-go-the-way-of-the-confederate-flag/

I think it's a bad idea.
it's a part of history. the movie showed the price the south paid.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 8:09 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

http://nypost.com/2015/06/24/gone-with-the-wind-should-go-the-way-of-the-confederate-flag/

I think it's a bad idea.
it's a part of history. the movie showed the price the south paid.


Yeah, but the movie still embraces the idea that the civilization that's now "gone with the wind" had its good aspects and a certain nobility. It's dated 1930's sentimental crap. I have the big red velvet Blu-ray edition, which I didn't buy until Amazon offered a deal on it, but I have it for the film's place in movie history, not because I like the film's sentiment. The substance of the movie isn't much more than soap opera, as history and social comment it's shallow.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 8:24 AM   
 By:   the_limited_edition_2   (Member)

Then you might as well scrap all Charlie Chan movies, Metropolis (the screenwriter was an avid fascist) etc etc. And, of course, all Tom and Jerry cartoons because they could inspire violence among toddlers.

GWTW is an important movie, and no one, *no one*, will be inspired to shoot black people by watching this film.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 8:27 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

It did have its good aspects, RoryR.

Whether right or wrong, it is HISTORY...it happened. There WERE plantations, there WERE barbecues, there WERE Miss Scarletts sashaying around and making empty-headed demands and comments. It "is" melodrama, but bear in mind that Margaret Mitchell interviewed many people who had lived during that time.

There were also very loyal and important-to-the-families slaves. What you need to get a grip on is that slavery was "legal" at the time.

It didn't start with Americans. The Spanish began bringing slaves in when they started sugar cane plantations in Louisiana.

There is also no "biblical" prohibition about slavery before anyone gets all touchy about it. Slavery, regardless of race, was a fact of life for millenia in this world of ours.

That we have mercifully outgrown it does not mean we should sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened. Neither should we sneer at depictions that show that some slaves were better treated than others.

Should it have never happened? Of course not. No one wants to be enslaved.

But let's not bury our heads in the sand about it, either.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 9:27 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I have to admit I've never seen GWTW. But it is a historical drama no? It's part of history as well as art. That is a lot different than states proudly displaying a flag which is a symbol of hate, repression and pro slavery. Say what you want there is nothing honorable about that flag. It would be like Germany's government displaying the Nazi swastika today.

Back to the idea of banning the film, there have been plenty of racist cartoons voluntarily "banned" by the various studios because of their insensitivity. Not sure I agree with the banning of any art, as long as its shown in historical context I think it should be available to the public.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 11:25 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

It's odd. The old psychoanalysts used to connect the following:

Chivalry
Cruelty
Sado-Masochism
Mother-fixated complexes
SOME forms of homosexuality (Don't accuse me of gay-bashing please, they said 'SOME'!!!)
Self-destructiveness
Purple (!!!)
Spoiledness
Over-aestheticism
'Earth' obsession, especially 'red' earth symbolism (Kali,)
Fascism
Heirarchy love
Suicide
Goddess worship (in men)
Aristocracy
Social Darwinism


Now, what's interesting is how many of those things the 'Old South' are associated with. (In that list of 16, about ten of them apply to Scarlett ... 'scarlet' ... purple; geddit? and 'her obsession with 'the land' Tara) ...

It was written by a woman of a certain era and psyche, and it reflects her as well as the period it's set in. I recall Bob Bly referred to the South as a land of 'mother-bound cavaliers'. and I know there was one Confed general (Pickett) who always reeked of strong perfume and they all loved their cavalier hats etc.. Old Jung said, 'chivalry is often a cover-up and compensation for unconscious cruelty'. The gentleman treated his PEERS with honour, not always other social classes.

We all love the imagery of the Old South from Twain etc., but the Union had a better grasp of society and a more wholesome psyche, for all their brashness.

So, it's like so many movies and books ... a product of the psyche that made it. Should that be whitewashed? It's a war that's long over.

The real problem is those steel things with the tubes that shoot little bits of encased lead that you can buy everywhere ...

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 11:35 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

While we're at it, if GWTW gets banned (and possibly its negative burned?) (mind you, this is an extreme I'm talking about), then why not ban every single movie in which the lead actors are smoking, too.

They're giving EVERYBODY lung cancer through second-hand smoke. Damn them all to hell.

And westerns will defintely have to go because they all vilify native Americans while glorifying genocidal white men on horses.

And the beat goes on...

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 12:29 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

On a side note I just read I think it's Warners property, is discontinuing "Dukes of Hazzard" merchandising.

Edit:

http://news.yahoo.com/dukes-hazzard-star-unfair-only-racists-own-confederate-040000811.html;_ylt=AwrBT7hJSIxVLoQAgw5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyb2hkZnQ4BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAzNjdfMQRzZWMDc2M-


Sounds like John Schneider is more concerned about the loss of royalties than anything else. wink

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 2:04 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Seems more likely Schneider is concerned about seriously unfair associations being implied where they don't exist.

But it's still an association most people make. For the sake of peace and harmony, I hope we can all move on.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 2:13 PM   
 By:   Doc Loch   (Member)

I've always felt there is much more to be learned from confronting history than from ignoring it.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 2:19 PM   
 By:   Gary S.   (Member)

I suppose we should sweep aside that GWTW won Hattie McDaniel a best supporting actress Oscar for playing Scarlett O'Hara's long suffering maid. She was the first black actress to win an Oscar. Yes it is melodramatic and Leslie Howard's turn as Ashley Wilkes grates at times, but still a fine film.

I grow weary of political correctness and the re-writing of history running amuck.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 2:19 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I've always felt there is much more to be learned from confronting history than from ignoring it.

History is good, glorifying the bad is not.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 2:24 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Seems more likely Schneider is concerned about seriously unfair associations being implied where they don't exist.

But it's still an association most people make. For the sake of peace and harmony, I hope we can all move on.


I never watched DOH but I always took the flag in that show to represent the "modern" symbolism of rebellious youth of authority as opposed to racist or governmental views. But the last paragraph screamed, that flag is my livelihood!

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I don't read anything in this article about banning or prohibiting or otherwise trying to make GWTW go away. I think the main points come at the beginning and the end of the article.

"If the Confederate flag is finally going to be consigned to museums as an ugly symbol of racism, what about the beloved film offering the most iconic glimpse of that flag in American culture?

"....That studio sent “Gone with the Wind’’ back into theaters for its 75th anniversary in partnership with its sister company Turner Classic Movies in 2014, but I have a feeling the movie’s days as a cash cow are numbered. It’s showing on July 4 at the Museum of Modern Art as part of the museum’s salute to the 100th anniversary of Technicolor — and maybe that’s where this much-loved but undeniably racist artifact really belongs."

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 4:23 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Birth of a Nation" still the biggest hit of all time, when the box-office figures are adjusted for inflation?

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 4:54 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Here's my favorite part of the article:

"But what does it say about us as a nation if we continue to embrace a movie that, in the final analysis, stands for many of the same things as the Confederate flag that flutters so dramatically over the dead and wounded soldiers at the Atlanta train station just before the “GWTW’’ intermission?"

I have an answer for that, Mr. Lumenick.
It says that we've learned to embrace both the good and bad of what we are and can look back at history in its own context, without projecting current trendy moral values into it.

"I have a feeling the movie’s days as a cash cow are numbered. It’s showing on July 4 at the Museum of Modern Art as part of the museum’s salute to the 100th anniversary of Technicolor — and maybe that’s where this much-loved but undeniably racist artifact really belongs."

This kind of anti-racism is just racism disguised, and it's the worst type of all.
Journalism" standards just get lower and lower, don't they?
What a buffoon.

It's a good movie. That's all there is to it.
The racism you get out of it is the racism you bring to it.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 5:24 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

I guess I felt similarly to Mel Gibson's "The Passion," come to think of it. The anti-Semitism you get out of it . . .

I think what's great about GWTW is the way it recreates the attitudes and passions of the characters its about. That doesn't require me to espouse those attitudes myself. You have to have a certain basic intelligence level not to find this concept the least bit confusing. One can understand the anti-war theme of "All Quiet on the Western Front" even though it happens to be about German soldiers, right?

Of course, realistically, there are many Americans who lack such basic sophistication. Take the poor, retarded-looking legal-gun-owning Dylann Roof, for instance, waving his Confederate flag while wearing a Gold's Gym wifebeater top. Never mind the irony of his apparent ignorance of the fact that he supports a business founded by a noted Jewish weightlifter. It's the way that in his limited Fox News-informed mindset that a symbol of ANY KIND serves (to him) as a justification for any act.

I was watching Fox News a little the other day, and the angle they were trying to play then, logic be damned, was that "today they're coming for our Confederate flags, tomorrow it'll be that OTHER red, white and blue symbol." Far more important than the symbol itself, IMHO, or any real/perceived "danger" to it, is an honest, well-informed discussion and understanding of what these symbols represent nowadays, and to whom. If the symbol itself is the extent of such discussion, we've got a much deeper problem, obviously.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 6:24 PM   
 By:   Doc Loch   (Member)

Odd that Fox News and other conservative commentators should be concerned that they will be coming for our "other" flag next. Isn't that what those who flew the Confederate flag were trying to do in the first place?

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2015 - 6:50 PM   
 By:   gone   (Member)

GWTW existing as a film is one thing, and flying a Confederate flag over a state capital is another. To my knowledge no one has ever flown a GWTW DVD over a state capital. Confederate flags have not been banned; just their use as official government symbols (a work in progress) ... and rightfully so. There's no need to engage in an over corrective action from one extreme to yet another.

PS : technically the 'stars and bars' flag was initially emblematic of insurrection (1860's) and later racial segregation (1960's) ... but not slavery

 
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