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LOG IN Forgot Login? Register General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board Search Terms:  Search Within:  topics posts since 2019 2018 posts 2017 posts 2016 posts 2015 posts 2014 posts 2013 posts 2012 posts 2011 posts 2010 posts 2009 posts 2008 posts 2007 posts 2006 posts 2005 posts 2004 posts 2003 posts 2002 posts 2001 posts 2000 posts users  search tips  You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1      General Discussion: Sir Harrison Birtwistle's score for THE OFFENCE   Last Post   Posted:   May 4, 2015 - 3:45 PM     By:   Les Jepson   (Member) There’s an interesting interview with Sir Harrison Birtwistle on the blu-ray of Sidney Lumet’s, THE OFFENCE. He recounts how he was hired, was told nothing, was offered no suggestions, and was left entirely to his own devices. He watched the film, then went home and spent a couple of days composing what he calls, “wild tracks”. These, he says, bore no relation to the edited film, but were just impressions in his mind after seeing the picture. He then orchestrated these pieces for voice, wind harmonies and long lines on solo instruments. After the pieces were recorded he manipulated them electronically in various ways. It was at this point that he spotted the film, alone, and chose from his finished products the tracks that were suitable simply by virtue of their durations. When Lumet and others saw and heard the finished film they made suggestions as to cuts and additions to the score, most of which Birtwistle talked them out of – especially the additions. I’ve never heard of an approach quite like this before.    Posted:   May 4, 2015 - 4:05 PM     By:   Grecchus   (Member) The only instance I can think of was Kubrick's use of Ligeti's deliberately distorted work as embodied in 2001. In that case, however, the composer appears not to have been amused.    Posted:   May 5, 2015 - 3:01 AM     By:   Les Jepson   (Member) I don't see any parallels at all between Kubrick and Ligeti, and Lumet and Birtwistle. Kubrick just used a needle-drop score of extant music and played around with it. Birtwistle composed an original score and was left completely on his own to provide the finished product, including spotting the film. Another interesting thing Birtwistle says in the interview was that he was once approached by John Huston to score a film (we're not told what it was), but the great director laid down too many conditions. Birtwistle says he has enough trouble realizing his own thoughts, musically, without trying to satisfy somebody else. Perhaps his ivory tower experience on THE OFFENCE led to this attitude.    Posted:   May 5, 2015 - 9:22 AM     By:   connorb93   (Member) When Bill Conti was hired for John Cassavetes GLORIA, he asked if he should be spotting the picture and discussing musical ideas, as Cassavete's didn't have much instruction for him once he was hired. Cassavetes replied "Well that's what I hired you for"    Posted:   May 5, 2015 - 9:26 AM     By:   Justin Boggan   (Member) For all the lame reasons composers have been fired from a film over the decades, based upon that story, Birtwistle is damn lucky to have not been deservedly fired. And then to not only not have any logical reason for having "scored" a scene but also defend all of them from being changed. That's epicly ballsy.    Posted:   May 5, 2015 - 3:45 PM     By:   Les Jepson   (Member) For all the lame reasons composers have been fired from a film over the decades, based upon that story, Birtwistle is damn lucky to have not been deservedly fired. And then to not only not have any logical reason for having "scored" a scene but also defend all of them from being changed. That's epicly ballsy. I sympathize with Birtwistle a bit. His first feature film score, nobody talks to him, he has to do everything (compose, orchestrate, record, music edit, and spot), then the suits come in at the eleventh hour with "helpful" suggestions. Herrmann and, probably, Morricone would have fired them.    Posted:   May 5, 2015 - 3:45 PM     By:   Les Jepson   (Member) Sorry -- double post.    Posted:   May 5, 2015 - 4:19 PM     By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member) I’ve never heard of an approach quite like this before. Perhaps these are related to topic or not, but there's at least 2 other directors (whom I recall) who let their films' composers write their music prior to the film. Bryan Forbes let John Barry do this for THE WHISPERERS, and Robert Altman let John Williams do this for IMAGES. There are probably more examples, though. I think I read somewhere that Andrei Tarkovsky was a very 'hands off' director with respect to music composed for his films. As for composers of absolute music, they naturally tend to consider their music as the most important aspect at the expense of the other collaborative facets of filmmaking. The reasons why Igor Stravinsky and Arnold Schoenberg did not ultimately acquire commissions to write music for films were because of such composers' attitudes that their music is superior to anything else. Purportedly, Stravinsky asked for an exceeding large amount of money as his fee for such services. I believe this was also the case with Schoenberg, however Schoenberg imposed additional conditions - that the actors and actresses in the film should start and end their dialogues in the same pitches as Schoenberg's intended music for those scenes! I think "Triumph Of Time" was the Birtwistle concert piece which had garnered enough attention during the early 1970s for filmmakers to consider him for THE OFFENCE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl0RXP0YioM&feature=player_detailpage    Posted:   May 6, 2015 - 4:22 PM     By:   Les Jepson   (Member) Birtwistle saw the finished film on a moviola before he composed a note. That was the only input he was offered at that stage. Also, I don't think his score is the product of a towering ego; the music is almost subliminal.    Posted:   Mar 4, 2024 - 9:54 AM     By:   jkruppa   (Member) I just saw this last night and was very impressed with the soundtrack. To add a little to the scoring process, I did a search and found a note on a Facebook fan page for electronic artist Peter Zinovieff, who is apparently the one who did the electronic distortions (he's even credited at the end of the film). The note on the Facebook page: "This music, never officially released, features Birtwistle's instrumental music performed by the London Sinfonietta, electronically transformed by Peter using the EMS filter bank found in 'Chronometer'. The soundtrack does relate to the sonic approaches featured in 'Chronometer', and it is likely that the two pieces were worked on around the same time." [Chronometer is another collaboration with Birtwistle] A fascinating score, and a film well worth seeing if you're in the mood for a very grim character study with Sean Connery playing against type.    Posted:   Mar 4, 2024 - 1:01 PM     By:   No Respectable Gentleman   (Member) Sir Harrison Birtwhistle lives in Hazelthorn Manor just outside Puddleby-on-the-Marsh, Buckinghamshire.    Posted:   Mar 4, 2024 - 1:23 PM     By:   jkruppa   (Member) Sir Harrison Birtwhistle lives in Hazelthorn Manor just outside Puddleby-on-the-Marsh, Buckinghamshire. Maybe the five of us who care should try to contact him about releasing the score.    Posted:   Mar 4, 2024 - 1:45 PM     By:   Clark Wayne   (Member) Ummm, only if you have a Ouija Board. He died in April 2022.......    Posted:   Mar 4, 2024 - 2:16 PM     By:   MusicMad   (Member) I watched this film a couple of months ago and commented: An interesting score by Harrison Birtwistle adds atmosphere but is often very annoying I’m not sure I’d buy a release (but then, I have bought PMD’s score (suite) to The Devils so anything is possible)??    Posted:   Mar 4, 2024 - 5:48 PM     By:   jkruppa   (Member) Ummm, only if you have a Ouija Board. He died in April 2022....... Just saw that. Whoops!     General Discussion: Sir Harrison Birtwistle's score for THE OFFENCE    < 1  >   Go to page:  1   First Post    General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1

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