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When Vader turned out to be Luke's father, I admit for me as a kid... that was a shock. But a "good"one... I too thought first: what? That's a lie or something, he's just saying that... can't be true.
But ok, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was a terrific sequel, it worked and kept us re-watching the first two movies and waiting for three years how the story will continue. It felt like a labor of love. RETURN OF THE JEDI, in comparison, was a mere duty call. They had to end the trilogy, of course Vader and Luke would confront each other, of course it would not be just Luke killing Vader (or vice versa), perhaps even pulling Vader to the "good side" again, that was all pretty much set well before the movie opened.
So while EMPIRE was exhilarating, JEDI was perfunctory, and it shows. And some of it was just lame. How to get out of the love triangle? Hey, Luke, Leia, you're brother and sister! Who could die this time, since Obi-Wan is already dead and we just can't get ourselves to kill Solo? Ah, here's Yoda, he's old (though he did just fine in EMPIRE), let him kick the bucket (for no real reason). It was pretty lame actually, though the space battle effects were amazing for their time, outdoing everything that had come before.
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Posted: |
May 3, 2018 - 6:23 AM
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By: |
jackfu
(Member)
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When Vader turned out to be Luke's father, I admit for me as a kid... that was a shock. But a "good"one... I too thought first: what? That's a lie or something, he's just saying that... can't be true.
But ok, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was a terrific sequel, it worked and kept us re-watching the first two movies and waiting for three years how the story will continue. It felt like a labor of love. RETURN OF THE JEDI, in comparison, was a mere duty call. They had to end the trilogy, of course Vader and Luke would confront each other, of course it would not be just Luke killing Vader (or vice versa), perhaps even pulling Vader to the "good side" again, that was all pretty much set well before the movie opened.
So while EMPIRE was exhilarating, JEDI was perfunctory, and it shows. And some of it was just lame. How to get out of the love triangle? Hey, Luke, Leia, you're brother and sister! Who could die this time, since Obi-Wan is already dead and we just can't get ourselves to kill Solo? Ah, here's Yoda, he's old (though he did just fine in EMPIRE), let him kick the bucket (for no real reason). It was pretty lame actually, though the space battle effects were amazing for their time, outdoing everything that had come before.
Good points!
ESB was great, although I found the whole "hiding in an asteroid cave which turns out to be a giant worm" boring and a distraction.
I think the thing that bugged me most about Return of the Jedi was the "You must confront (and kill) Vader!"
"Oh, really? Why, to clean up the mess you guys created? I've already lost a hand to the guy, so now I gotta face him again, risk him overcoming me and either killing me or converting me to his side, not to mention going up against the Emperor as well? Just because you guys screwed up?
Yoda left a paid-off hut on Dagobah, fixer-upper no doubt, but cozy. Tell you what, I'll give it some thought, ok, don't call me, I'll call you."
See, it's those beneficent Jedi, manipulating again!
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Posted: |
May 3, 2018 - 10:08 AM
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By: |
LeHah
(Member)
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That's pretty dumb...there are tons of series in film and fiction that were passed onto new creative teams that remained vital. Lucas' prequels completely missed the elemential appeal of the OT, too addicted to flashy F/X and impeneratable storytelling. Just like The X-Files has withered due to Chris Carter's inability to use it for anything other than his own poorly-realized social/political rants these days.
I would crush you forever and cast the dust of your bones to the wind with the facts involving X-Files writer's room, but I shall not because thats not why I'm sitting here, sharpening my knife with a grindstone. Thats because of Star Wars.
Star Wars is a very certain type of old storytelling. Some people argue that George Lucas only intended to make one movie or only three movies and not three trilogies - but we'll leave that dumb argument for people of lesser intellects than ours. Because the fact is its irrelevant.
Star Wars (as a series) was written in a very specific fashion. For instance, the prequel trilogy (warts and all) is an Old Testament tale. Qui-Gon is John The Baptist, the Jedi literally live in an ivory tower, etc. Its not meant to be a literal retelling of the bible anymore than Kal-El's origin story is suppose to be literally Moses. Its stories painted with the same colors. Not a lot of people can do that right but George can. His weaknesses lay in directing, not in world-building - which is obviously your issue with him and, truth be told, I have some too though they're not anything close what the rest of the internet burns effigies to.
But when George is building up the Star Wars universe in very specific, very knitted-together tropes - it falls apart when those are no longer respected.
Would we think much of Psycho if it was actually Norman Bates' mother at the end? Or what if Ilsa didn't get on the plane at the end of Casablanca? What if Verbal Kint wasn't Keyer Soze and he just walked off and there was no revelation? Rosebud isn't a sled, its just a box of frozen peas!
The thing is how you end a thing is just as important as how you start it. Disney/Kennedy tossed away the original drafts Lucas had given them and handed Abrams and Johnson - two people whom I would ecstatically call illiterate to their faces - the keys to the kingdom and gave us not only the most half-assed continuation in human history, but one that purposely goes out of its way to ignore the one thing people wanted for 30 years (Han, Leia and Luke together again) so they could push out a new toy line. This was the exact same motivation and result from the original 80s Transformers movie: kill the old ones to bring in the new ones.
By changing the ending to a certain extent ruins the whole.
And now what do we have? Nothing. One more film that can't be helped by the characters people *actually* wanted to see, so we're stuck with a line of good actors playing overpowered and dull characters who lack growth, meaning or context.
Or as someone else from this board had said: If JJ Abrams is the Yoko Ono of Star Wars, then Rian Johnson is surely Mark David Chapman.
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