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 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

https://youtu.be/_4gdhsVKTcs

There seems to be the beginning of a backlash on social media toward Bond 23.

Not everyone who liked the film in 2012 still likes it. Some people who had a good time are beginning to change their mind after they've thought about it for awhile.

So, how does everyone here feel about about SKYFALL ?

What do you like and what bothers you?

Positive and negative opinions are both welcome.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 3:54 PM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

I thought SKYFALL (2012) was the most artfully made and dramatically viable Bond film since OHMSS (1969), and creatively the most sophisticated film in the franchise since OHMSS. In many ways it was up to the standard I expected from Sam Mendes, who is regarded by writers and directors (his peers) as one of finest dramatists working in theater today.

But the nature of that creativity was perturbing. If Bond's strategies had worked and if he had won the fights I'd have applauded the film. I'd have liked the film if all the story threads had been resolved in the London melee instead of going on to Bond's ancestral home for further deconstruction. CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE also mined the deconstruction of the Bond universe, but SKYFALL dug deeper and made his defeats even more personal.

I'm not sure what is being gained by portraying James Bond as a consistent failure whose best efforts do not effect the outcome of events, except to unwittingly manipulate MI.6 to its destruction and M. to her doom. That's an anti-Bond film. I can not fathom the need at EON to go in this direction. Nor could I fathom the mass audience's acceptance of this approach to James Bond.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 4:05 PM   
 By:   Ralph   (Member)

Became clear in “Casino Royale” that nihilism was going to be a strong underpinning in Daniel Craig’s revamped Bond. Absent svelte, emphasizing the rule that the smaller the adversary the more menacing the buffed bravo in duty-bound determination. His limited expressiveness is shield, yet he’s equipped with an immersive vocality as tool to engender capitulation. Even showing his age in “Skyfall,” the camera gobbles up his coarseness but never for long: too much of him causes sizable tremors on the brutality scale — he’s the least schmoozing of the Bonds. Craig’s staccato toughness no doubt rubs against traditionalists wanting the comfort of the past as escape. Like Sean Connery’s smirky speciality, which was bagging the broads between ridiculous heroics to save mankind from effete megalomaniacs. George Lazenby wasn’t around long enough to hanker for or get sick of; Roger Moore’s masculinity was consistently in peril of sliding into poof spoof; Timothy Dalton had the shifty looks of bad boy shyster working against character; and Pierce Brosnan a sensational clotheshorse the first time out and then met his icy waterloo in “Die Another Day.” Those hoping for a revival of outlandish techno flash must be very disappointed that the “prestige” of Sam Mendes directing “Skyfall” meant that the comic fanfare would be further diminished and in its place a long-coming conclusion to a character given a much stronger presence since “GoldenEye.” The love/hate of Bond and his boss M gave Brosnan and Craig something to hold in contempt (after all, she puts a hit on her own agents when they misbehave) but grudging respect, if not eventually come to have affection for. The moldy psychology of a mother/son thing isn’t farfetched but thankfully without any linkage, so far. (The inkling that Bond will retrograde comes early on — when we see M’s digs being quite a throwback from hers in “Casino Royale” — and becomes manifest when an old boy toy shows up for duty, accompanied by a familiar musical refrain.) Far be it from me to explain why “Skyfall” is the biggest grosser in the franchise — $1.2 Billion. Aside from inheriting Craig’s mammoth and obviously receptive audience — “Casino Royale”: $600 Million; “Quantum of Solace”: $586 Million — the reviews were generally kind, a few overblown with praise and a few brought out the knives. Some attribute the success to Javier Bardem’s villain, a sort of Guy Burgess as Blondie Hannibal; they heard the chat about his inclination and wanted to see for themselves how Bond would respond. (Rather cleverly.) Others might have wanted to see Judi Dench, a treasure similar to Maggie Smith and Betty White, in what is assumed her final Bond picture. Or simply the appeal of Craig. The eye-popping nightscapes of Shanghai — a Chinese Epcot as a blend of past and future — help enormously.

 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 5:03 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Ralph, that is one hell of an awkward paragraph.

 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 5:03 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Double post

 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 8:34 PM   
 By:   Jeyl   (Member)

I didn't like Skyfall for one big reason... Bond sucked at his job. He gets shot off a train and decides not only to quit the mission, but quit the whole bloody service. He'll call in for reinforcements to catch the bad guy on his own land, but he won't call in reinforcements when he's laying out his home alone style trap for heavily armed bad guys. Also, his plan lead to M's death, which he still manages to not care about.

Why is he still in the service?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 8:59 PM   
 By:   Dan Hobgood   (Member)

The Bond character assassination continued, as Richard noted. The series, often misguidedly, has aped a number of other franchises. I sure never thought Home Alone would be one of them . . . .

At least the photography was good.

Maybe the end was a harbinger of a return to form? (Please! I'm really, really tired of anti-Bond Bond movies.)

Dan

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 9:22 PM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/idris-elba-addresses-james-bond-speculation-1201388135/

Skyfall plays often on cable, and I still enjoy it and am looking forward to SPECTRE. I like Craig as Bond.

Of course, the latest discussion taking place is whether or not Idris Elba should be tapped as Bond after Craig. Obviously, there will be more feather ruffling should that happen.

 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 10:35 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

I've seen it twice in the theaters and several times on DVD and I still enjoy it very much. During the most recent viewing I actually found that it flew by faster than previously. I am a long time Bond fan but it doesn't bother me that these Craig/Bond films are different than what came before. I love that I can watch a Bond movie from a previous era when I want and still love it, but the Craig films have their own flavor, digging deep into his character more so than before and that's not a bad thing.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 29, 2015 - 10:47 PM   
 By:   jenkwombat   (Member)

Tom Servo, I like the way you think.

smile

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 30, 2015 - 12:07 AM   
 By:   Disco Stu   (Member)

The only redeeming quality the Craig-series has is that it killed Judy Dench's M. Too bad that M-version didn't die a horrid death of Bond-villain because the way she was played and portrayed made me want to torture her every single second she was on. She behaved like a mobster mom, England's Ma Baker; a horrible horrible horrible character.

D.S.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 30, 2015 - 5:25 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

The first time I saw Skyfall, I convinced myself I actually quite liked it. No idea why, although I suspect it is down to the fact that I went in with zero expectations, having really disliked the last 3 Bond movies and absolutely detestied Daneil Craig's interpretation of the role.

So, with some reservations, I was reasonably caught up in Skyfall the first time around. I even found Craig not quite as insufferable as I had in his previous 2 outings as 007.

I've watched it a few times since, on Blu Ray and unfortunately my initial tolerance of the film has been entirely lost. In the cold light of day, with my more analytical head on, I find Skyfall to be quite an awful movie.

Don't get me wrong, Skyfall isn't without some good points. For starters, it is far and away the best looking Bond movie ever - the cinematography is simply stunning. And there are a couple of decent lines (the ejector-seat joke between M and 007 is good fun). And I liked the shoot out in the Court room.

But overall I consider the film to be pretty poor, largely due to some incredibly empty-headed writing. Now, I appreciate that Bond films are never necessarily recognised for their tight plotting and that, right from Dr No, events have often be moved forward by screenwriting contrivances. Overall I have no issue with that as long as I'm swept up enough in the film, so on that basis I might have been willing to give Skyfall a pass for the ridiculous set-up for Silva's escape from MI6. But what is unforgivable is what happens next;

Bond needs to protect M but also wants to use her to flush out Silva, so his idea is to get Q to lay bread crumbs to lure the baddie to Scotland. Ok so far so good. But wait a second... why for goodness sake does M actually need to be there?????? Q's false tail doesn't include a live camera feed inside the DB5 or Skyfall itself so they could simply pretend M was with Bond, whilst actually she was in a top secret safe house.

And then, since M, Q, Tanner et al all know where the final confrontation is going to take place (they laid the bread crumbs after all), why not have a small army battalion waiting for Silva? No, instead they simply sit back and let Bond, M and Groundskeeper Willy defend themselves with some old shotguns and a few half-hearted MacGyverisms. The whole set up is a comprehensive fail in logic and insulting to the audience.

Surely, it would have been far better if the screenwriters had had Silva capture M and take her to Skyfall to taunt both her and Bond?

The are loads of other things wrong with Skyfall too but it is the stupidity of the third act that really gets me. The shoot out and destruction of Skyfall is mildly exciting in a seen-it-all-before sort of way but the whole thing is just so incredibly dumb I can hardly watch it.

Ive never hidden my abject hatred of the way the current crop of Bond films have gone all Jason Bourne and my loathing of Daniel Craig is legendary. But I am still capable of judging Skyfall on its own merits as a movie (rather than as a Bond movie) and on re-assessment I think it fails as both. What with the derivative and silly plot, the endless naval-gazing from the bland hero and a villain who has all the menace of Frankie Howard, all Skyfall has going for it is that it looks pretty.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 30, 2015 - 5:56 AM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

For me, the movie was okay. Not great, not awful. Not as exciting and tightly wound as Craig's Casino Royale, and not as stunningly bad as Quantum Of Solace. Roger Deakins made the movie look just fantastic, the best looking Bond movie ever, and Newman's score was surprisingly good ( although David Arnold is missed ).

The only thing that really bothered me was the moron movie moment when 007 is lured to the exactly right lucky spot at the right time for a subway train to come crashing through layers of concrete to try and kill him. I mean, how in the world does a bad guy ever execute a plan like this? It felt like Nolan's The Dark Knight when the Joker keeps saying he is an "agent of chaos" "like a dog chasing cars" with no plan, but EVERY SINGLE STEP he takes is part of a wildly elaborate set up.

Overall, the movie was okay. But I really should get a used Blu Ray to enjoy that sumptuous Deakins photography.

 
 Posted:   Mar 30, 2015 - 7:16 AM   
 By:   The Thing   (Member)

I think I'll have a re-watch of the 3 Daniel Craig films starting tonight.

But I can't say I'm a fan of this Bond.

I can pick everything up to (and including) Die Another Day, and know I'm going to be watching a fun and (to varying degrees) enjoyable film.

But Bond has become dull and gritty now, just like everything else... which is what I believe the producers wanted to achieve, i.e. to try and compete with everything else.

But I want to see a Bond film because they are supposed to be different to everything else. I miss all the far-fetched fantasy elements of those films.

Anyway, I think I enjoyed Skyfall, but not as a Bond film. He no longer seems to be a Hero to root for, but rather comes across as too vulnerable and brooding. It's all too character-driven, instead of excitement- and adventure-driven.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 30, 2015 - 7:54 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

The only thing that really bothered me was the moron movie moment when 007 is lured to the exactly right lucky spot at the right time for a subway train to come crashing through layers of concrete to try and kill him. I mean, how in the world does a bad guy ever execute a plan like this? It felt like Nolan's The Dark Knight when the Joker keeps saying he is an "agent of chaos" "like a dog chasing cars" with no plan, but EVERY SINGLE STEP he takes is part of a wildly elaborate set up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmoIDKqfY44

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 30, 2015 - 8:01 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Excellent movie, loved the backstory elements and how the villain is sparingly used. Some of the setups of the new characters felt a bit forced but I found Skyfall a great standalone Bond film that operated on a more character driven level instead of just action, and easily making me forget the terribly bland Quantum of Solace. Skyfall knocked it out of the park for me in a lot of departments and that includes score and title song as well.

 
 Posted:   Apr 3, 2015 - 12:12 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

The "new Bond" has plausibility.

The other Bonds never did.

I realize he's a "fantasy figure" for many, but he IS set in the real world and no man is as fantastically lucky as the James Bond of the Connery/Lazenby/Moore/Brosnan sort.

 
 Posted:   Apr 3, 2015 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   The Thing   (Member)

The "new Bond" has plausibility.

The other Bonds never did.

I realize he's a "fantasy figure" for many, but he IS set in the real world and no man is as fantastically lucky as the James Bond of the Connery/Lazenby/Moore/Brosnan sort.



As you say, he is a fantasy figure for many, and that's what set those Bond movies apart from standard action films. Now they just blend in amongst the crowd.

 
 Posted:   Apr 3, 2015 - 4:57 PM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

The "new Bond" has plausibility.

The other Bonds never did.

I realize he's a "fantasy figure" for many, but he IS set in the real world and no man is as fantastically lucky as the James Bond of the Connery/Lazenby/Moore/Brosnan sort.


Oh, this new brand has fantasy running all the way through ...

... in the real world, no agent would last in the job with his failure rate. At least the JB007 of old succeeded in his missions. The re-booted version has, to date, lost the UK Treasury some USD130m or so (what was Vesper's line about directly funding terrorism?), killed a fellow agent (at the opera) and due to his incompetence caused the death of his boss.

Of course, we haven't seen the missions between him becoming a 00-agent and becoming a has-been wreck ... maybe he redeemed himself after his early failures before becoming burnt-out.

Mitch

 
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