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I'm on the same page with you regarding TOS vs. TNG characters and actors. However, in spite of that, I still think First Contact is a fine film.
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"Star Trek: Generations" is my favorite. I think a few months ago here I listed my many reasons. I'll be damned if I can recall what thread.
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I like them ALL!
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Posted: |
Jan 28, 2015 - 8:20 AM
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By: |
Mr Greg
(Member)
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I'm a bit fixated on Nemesis right now--and perhaps I missed the dialogue referring to it, but when they found the other Data head on the dune buggy planet, did any of the crew at any point in the film ever mention Lore?
That ALWAYS bugged the hell out of me....no you missed nothing, Lore was - in one foul swoop - completely obliterated from Star Trek memory...that being said, for all its faults I do like Nemesis...
The Next Gen films always bothered me for various reasons....First Contact was often more like reading a Star Trek comic, Insurrection came off as a pretty good extended episode of the TV series, Nemesis was far too self-important and seemed to have two movies going on at the same time...HOWEVER, that's not to say that I don't find them all completely watchable and entertaining....whether that's purely because they are Star Trek movies or not I don't know....Star Trek has been part of my life for over 30 years (I was a late starter!), I have to conceded that if they weren't Star Trek movies, I perhaps wouldn't bother more than a couple of times.
But...
.....and it's a big but...
...for me - and purely for me - Generations is not just the best of the Next Gen movies, it comes close to being the best Star Trek movie of them all. Sure, it doesn't QUITE meet the dizzy heights of Wrath of Khan, or the supremely underrated (a lot of the time) Search for Spock, but DAMN it comes close.....
....sure there is some all-too-mawkish sensibility towards the end....sure it tries to drive home its moral with a sledgehammer rather than relying on subtlety, script and performances, but for me there's something very deep in Generations' core that transcends all of this....it just takes a little digging....for instance, what is the Nexus? Sure, all the readouts on the Enterprise (which looks a bit shit on the big screen, it does have to be said) point to it being an "Energy Ribbon", but is it suggesting too much to say it's a life form? It warns Picard, don't' forget....it's loving and caring....perhaps too much....so is Soran REALLY the bad guy in this movie? Or is he serving something? Does the Nexus, if it's indeed living, know that it is evil? Is it evil at all? It kills people by kindness...by giving them their perfect life....is that evil?
The whole Picard's family thing....ok....fine....but consider that the Nexus doesn't want Picard there....Picard is seeing what he wants to see....not what The Nexus wants him to see....so the "Energy Ribbon" is just a misunderstood good guy, right? Maybe?
The performances in this film are MOSTLY superb....sure the whole Data emotion thing gets a little silly at times, but provides an important plot point (just as it did in the series)...Patrick Stewart is beyond awesome as Picard...he almost carries the movie by himself...just look at his reaction to receiving the bad news at the beginning of the TNG part of the movie....he is just stunning....the supporting cast do well with what is, at times, a pretty average script, but it's a damn sight better than what came in the following three movies....the best effects (even the recycled ones) of the entire TNG movie series, paced MOSTLY brilliantly, a score to die for (I know it's sacrilege to suggest that it's better than some of the Goldsmith scores...but....well...it is....)....just a wonderful movie....and one of the very few pieces of Star Trek that give me that child-like sense of wonder all over again, no matter how many time I watch it....
...only real qualms are - what the hell are Lursa and B'Etor doing in this movie?....and the budget (or lack of) does show sometimes...particularly during the closing 20 minutes....it's a quarry...a...quarry....you could put all the flashy panels you want on the rocket, but it still just looks like a quarry...oh, and Kirk's send-off....it's ok, but that's all....I wanted more...
My opinions only, of course...but yeah, for me, not only is Generations the best TNG movie (by quite a long way), it comes close to being the best Star Trek movie....
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Posted: |
Jan 28, 2015 - 9:12 AM
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By: |
Francis
(Member)
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First Contact was undone by James Cromwell's goofy take on Zefram Cochrane but the entire event--first contact--was imo best left as something we imagined would be like rather than actually being portrayed on screen, if that makes sense. Kind of like how I feel about the Clone Wars in that other franchise.
Exactly! Some things are best told as stories! They are far more magical and meaningful when you are allowed to fill in the blanks with your imagination.
I obviously disagree here as I thought this whole premise of making first contact take place had the most "star trek" message of the whole picture and the fact it showed these to Trek lore historical figures as being mere human beings that don't live up to their legend, was fun. Especially Riker and Geordie having to go fetch a drunk in the woods. The scene where Geordie tells Cochrane where his statue will be and all the hero worship by the crew is funny. The scene with Picard and Data at Cromwell's spaceship as well. The whole story was brilliantly written by Braga and Moore despite a drunk Troi, which was the only scene in the movie I wish got cut.
I'm a bit fixated on Nemesis right now--and perhaps I missed the dialogue referring to it, but when they found the other Data head on the dune buggy planet, did any of the crew at any point in the film ever mention Lore?
They do mention Data's creator Soong, but I don't believe Lore is ever brought up. The whole storyline of Nemesis is so convoluted with the Picard and Data clones as well as the Romulan backstory. It just doesn't make a lot of sense for a human to take over the Romulan empire just to get back at Picard. As pointed out, too much of the movie exists to serve Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner and less so a credible story. The cast in Nemesis is either horribly underused or terribly inefficient; Tom Hardy plays basically a wimp, Ron Perlman is set dressing and that Romulan chick is ok I guess but too "kind", Romulans are suppose to be backstabbing. Everything, from the way the film looks with its shitty sets and boring special effects and lame action buggy and flying scooter sequences, is as far removed from what TNG was about that to me it is the Star Trek V of TNG movies.
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Posted: |
Jan 28, 2015 - 10:45 AM
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By: |
Matt S.
(Member)
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During the period in which Insurrection takes place, the Federation was in the middle of a war with the Dominion.
And that was its biggest problem. After getting bigger and more cinematic with First Contact, they used the opportunity to basically make a big-budget episode . . . right when the TV show was in all-out war. They had the opportunity to make a big Star Trek (anti)war movie, to potentially get more crossover appeal to the TV show, to at least in some way acknowledge the momentous events that were occurring on the small screen, and they just utterly wasted it.
I would imagine the Dominion War was the LAST thing the producers wanted to focus on. There were a few mentions about the war during the movie, but given that DS9 was focusing so heavily on it, why would they want to make another all-out war story? Don't get me wrong, it could have made for a great movie, but I think the "epicness" of DS9's final two seasons could have been the very reason that Insurrection was smaller in scale than the other movies....they wanted to get back to the feel of the TNG series, instead of showing endless fleets of starships being blown to bits.
Count me among those who feel Insurrection is one of the better TNG films.
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