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 Posted:   Dec 16, 2014 - 8:27 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)


To be honest, I don't think Goldsmith would have been the best choice for this - The propensity toward not using music during the horror/set pieces in the film is one of its great assets, and Goldsmith would've doubtlessly gone to town on those scenes with COMA or BOYS FROM BRAZIL-type action melodrama that worked against the images, even if the music was strong on its own (sorry, I think those aforementioned scores completely desiccate any tension in those films' action/suspense scenes).


Didn't Morricone score the "dog kennel" sequence? There are several cues on the album that don't appear anywhere in the film.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 16, 2014 - 8:46 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)



To be honest, I don't think Goldsmith would have been the best choice for this - The propensity toward not using music during the horror/set pieces in the film is one of its great assets, and Goldsmith would've doubtlessly gone to town on those scenes with COMA or BOYS FROM BRAZIL-type action melodrama that worked against the images, even if the music was strong on its own (sorry, I think those aforementioned scores completely desiccate any tension in those films' action/suspense scenes).



Are we talking about the same composer who did an 11 minute score for SEVEN DAYS IN MAY letting the tension play out by itself and only creating musical punctuation at key moments? Or who pioneered the idea of soundscapes as early as THE PLANET OF THE APES or ALIEN ? He did what he was asked to do and he certainly could be austere if requested to do so.

Again I, of all people, am more than happy with Morricone's score but not at the expense of stereotyping Goldsmith.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 16, 2014 - 9:01 PM   
 By:   Thgil   (Member)

I'd heard about the Goldsmith connection, but had no idea Alex North had been approached as well. Wow. If I could visit two alternate universes...

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 4:48 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)



Except Leviathan was a terrible film while The Thing is a modern classic.


That is very true.


Oh boy, is it ever.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 5:21 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I think we sometimes imagine what a composer would do with material and confuse our imagination with reality.

The honest truth is we honestly don't know what would have happened: what kind of score would have been written, etc.

However, if I was to take a punt from my imagination, I think it would have either been one of Goldsmith's very electronic scores or something more in the fashion of "Alien".

Probably the latter given that's the score that brought Goldsmith's name up in the first place.

However, it's all just fantasy.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 5:23 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

On "Leviathan", by the way, even though the film is awful and it comes in a period of Goldsmith's output I'm less interested in, I would be attracted to a deluxe edition of it. Don't ask me why. Some things are not logical.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 5:36 AM   
 By:   Smitty   (Member)

On "Leviathan", by the way, even though the film is awful and it comes in a period of Goldsmith's output I'm less interested in, I would be attracted to a deluxe edition of it. Don't ask me why. Some things are not logical.

There's nothing weird about that in my mind as it is a truly interesting and persistently engaging score, much more so than the likes of Warlock or Deep Rising for instance.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 5:54 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Yes I remember getting Warlock at the same time (in the same parcel, in fact) and thinking, much as I tried to like it, "Ugh!". But Leviathan did indeed become friendly with my CD player.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I never really got why so many people dislike Warlock. After all the bad stuff I heard about it, when I finally got a copy a couple years ago (for completeness sake) I was rather surprised to be quite taken with it. It was less synthetic than I was expecting with some quite thrilling parts. I would definitely buy a complete remastered version.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 9:27 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I never really got why so many people dislike Warlock.

It's always felt very sleepy to me, with action riffs that are very stock for Goldsmith. The main theme has no energy, and is so simple it barely registers. (To me.)

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 10:07 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

I never really got why so many people dislike Warlock.

It's always felt very sleepy to me, with action riffs that are very stock for Goldsmith. The main theme has no energy, and is so simple it barely registers. (To me.)



And that is why I love it!

I have never been mainstream in wanting variations of the same stuff over and over again. Yuck, that is what continues to make me lose interest in a composer after composer. But Jerry's war films, westerns, sci-fi, suspense, etc. were never cookie cutter. So horror movies like THE MEPHISTO WALTZ was nothing like THE OTHER which was nothing like THE REINCARNATION OF PETER PROUD nor THE OMEN, TWILIGHT ZONE, etc. WARLOCK sounded like a dirge leading straight down to hell. It actually gave me a sense of pure evil that his more elaborate ones didn't. Used it on student films and many a Halloween program.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I have never been mainstream in wanting variations of the same stuff over and over again. Yuck, that is what continues to make me lose interest in a composer after composer. But Jerry's war films, westerns, sci-fi, suspense, etc. were never cookie cutter. So horror movies like THE MEPHISTO WALTZ was nothing like THE OTHER which was nothing like THE REINCARNATION OF PETER PROUD nor THE OMEN, TWILIGHT ZONE, etc. WARLOCK sounded like a dirge leading straight down to hell. It actually gave me a sense of pure evil that his more elaborate ones didn't. Used it on student films and many a Halloween program.

You don't find the action music in "Warlock" to be exactly the same stuff over and over? That's one of the things that turns me off to this score – the action music seems the definition of cookie-cutter.

As for the main theme, it's not enough to be different. It's just too simple for my taste. (Again, my own.) It's like Goldsmith was noodling on a keyboard, hit on a melody, and never embellished it at all.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 11:02 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)



You don't find the action music in "Warlock" to be exactly the same stuff over and over? That's one of the things that turns me off to this score – the action music seems the definition of cookie-cutter.

As for the main theme, it's not enough to be different. It's just too simple for my taste. (Again, my own.) It's like Goldsmith was noodling on a keyboard, hit on a melody, and never embellished it at all.


I heard you the first time but since you insist on reiterating so will I.

If this is a composer noodling let's have more of it (and he does it with counterpoint!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8cYHlNnFCs

Damn, after listening again that Puritan Boston underlay comes through adding another layer to something I have taken for granted. Anyway, you can make the same claim of noodling for A PATCH OF BLUE and other of his simpler themes but I disagree on all of them.

As for action cues and suspense cues, they are my least favorite from all composers because there is always a certain mickey mousing involved. You are following the action with quiet and then sudden sound or you are putting the proper musical curtain behind it. That said, what keeps all suspense cues from being cookie cutter is the integration of the main theme(s) into them or the specific flavor of the piece. Let's take the most nondescript cue from the movie and plop it down in some other film and I will immediately say what is this WARLOCK cue doing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5QrYxKr6ZE


IMHO

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 11:15 AM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

The finale of Warlock is outstanding. I really like that theme. It's just so damn quiet on the CD. It deserves a remaster.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 10:20 PM   
 By:   peterproud   (Member)



You don't find the action music in "Warlock" to be exactly the same stuff over and over? That's one of the things that turns me off to this score – the action music seems the definition of cookie-cutter.

As for the main theme, it's not enough to be different. It's just too simple for my taste. (Again, my own.) It's like Goldsmith was noodling on a keyboard, hit on a melody, and never embellished it at all.


I heard you the first time but since you insist on reiterating so will I.

If this is a composer noodling let's have more of it (and he does it with counterpoint!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8cYHlNnFCs


Must admit, I've never been a big fan of the synth choices for this score but when the theme is taken over by strings (as it is in the above selection at 1:42) it feels so tragic to me...like "end of the world" music. I know it's just three string lines but Goldsmith could do much with just a single melodic line and some well constructed counterpoint. Not much else about the score thrills me though, especially the action writing.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 11:07 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I heard you the first time but since you insist on reiterating so will I.

Are you insinuating I'm tedious?

I mean, obviously I am. But I still resent the insinuation.

My point was not to be redundant, only that my dislike for "Warlock" has nothing to do with it being somehow different, as I thought you were suggesting.

Oh look, I guess I've done it again.

As you suggest, regardless, all the words in the world don't matter. You either respond emotionally to a piece of music or you don't. This one leaves me cold. I am but one man.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 11:43 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

I heard you the first time but since you insist on reiterating so will I.

Are you insinuating I'm tedious?

I mean, obviously I am. But I still resent the insinuation.

My point was not to be redundant, only that my dislike for "Warlock" has nothing to do with it being somehow different, as I thought you were suggesting.

Oh look, I guess I've done it again.

As you suggest, regardless, all the words in the world don't matter. You either respond emotionally to a piece of music or you don't. This one leaves me cold. I am but one man.


I am too.

Didn't mean for this to be a debate but you seemed to make some more good points that enabled me to build up my case. Indeed our emotional response is the bottomline. But I do like others to understand what I hear so at least you can kinda get why I respond like I do, even if you do not.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2014 - 11:44 PM   
 By:   SBD   (Member)

Let me just chime in on WARLOCK: hardly an outstanding score in the Goldsmith canon, but an entertaining one. I admit to being somewhat cold to it at first blush (cf. Deconstructing Goldsmith), but then I saw the film (not too bad) and the music worked wonderfully. I got the soundtrack a while after that. The main theme gets under the skin, but in a good way. Also, I've always loved the quietly noble theme for Redferne. The orchestral versions of both themes near the end were quite exceptional. In between, there's some neat effects (the shivering strings about 4 min. into "The Trance", the staccato action cues). Overall, very underrated.

 
 Posted:   Dec 18, 2014 - 10:45 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

WARLOCK isn't "bad". It's just that there's so much that's better and more interesting than it that it falls outside my perimeter of interest.

But folks, this is one of those things that comes down to personal response. No amount of logic in the world is going to change whether it does it for you or not.

Best we simply accept we're different.

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 18, 2014 - 8:23 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

A version of Nails with missing pulsating synths intact is definitely why I put Warlock on my grail list. It desperately needs a decent remaster as it sounds so muffled and there's a defect in the track "The Salt Flats" at 0:30 that's annoying. The choir source cue would also be a fun bonus track to have.

I love the score because of how it fits the clever low budget horror movie, doing what Goldsmith does best, beef up sequences as well as add emotion (the salt flats finale with that whirlwind gets me everytime). The Warlock theme is also very effective for Julian Sands' cold performance. When it does get going, this score is a pleasure!

 
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