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 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 2:00 PM   
 By:   danford650   (Member)

Hi all,

I suspect the answer to this question may be Jerry Goldsmith's 1968 Planet of the Apes, but does anyone know what the first western film score was to feature ethnic or 'world' instruments in tandem with an orchestra?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 2:03 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

Rozsa's got 12 years over Apes (Bhowani Junction), at least!

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/cds/detail.cfm/CDID/259/Green-Fire-Bhowani-Junction/

 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 2:44 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I don't know what the first use of 'ethnic' instruments (however we're defining that) was and I'd propose it's a pointless question anyway, but there were definitely precedents well before Goldsmith and "Planet of the Apes".

Amongst many other examples, there Herrmann and his use of the Serpent. I'm not quite sure its an "ethnic" instrument but I'm not sure what Goldsmith used in "Planet of the Apes" would be called "ethnic" either.

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 2:52 PM   
 By:   TheFamousEccles   (Member)

I don't know what the first use of 'ethnic' instruments (however we're defining that) was and I'd propose it's a pointless question anyway, but there were definitely precedents well before Goldsmith and "Planet of the Apes".

Amongst many other examples, there Herrmann and his use of the Serpent. I'm not quite sure its an "ethnic" instrument but I'm not sure what Goldsmith used in "Planet of the Apes" would be called "ethnic" either.

Cheers


While there are many precedents before "Planet of the Apes" (the aforementioned "Bhowani Junction," and I'd argue that "The Third Man" would fall under this category, given the Zither's extensive use in folk music, and the same for "The IPCRESS File," showcasing the cimbalom; there's also the adaptation score for "Brigadoon," with its several key bagpipe passages), I'd argue that the use of the shofar in "Apes" would count as an "ethnic" instrument, given its close cultural associations.

There are many more, of course, but these are the ones that came to mind.

But then, it depends on how we're defining "ethnic" here - are we talking about 'specialty,' folk, or cultural instruments not found in a primarily European or Eurasian culture, or are we including the musical particulars of those areas, too?

 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 2:57 PM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

How about the drums in King Kong?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 3:00 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

I was thinking about Malcolm Arnold's NINE HOURS TO RAMA ( 1963 ) as an example but I suspect Indian ethnic instrumentation predates this.

 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 3:07 PM   
 By:   robertmro   (Member)

It could be "Lost Horizon" 1937 depending on your context.

 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 3:19 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

It could be "Lost Horizon" 1937 depending on your context.

I would certainly agree with this. Also Dragon Seed (1944) had some good use of Asian Ethnic instruments. But it depends if the discussion is mostly about middle-eastern style or any ethnic instrument.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 3:54 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Does the Hawaiian guitar in 1965's In Harm's Way count as Goldsmith's first use of ethnic instruments?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2014 - 3:56 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Any discussion on this topic must include mention of the father of exotica, Les Baxter. Most members here seem to know him primarily through his AIP scores, many of which included "ethnic" percussion instruments; but Baxter's greatest influence of other film composers occurred via his amazing exotica albums for Capitol in the 1950s, most of which included "ethnic" instruments, however we wish to define that. These albums where a huge influence on a later generation of film and TV composers - the "Star Trek" theme is virtually unimaginable without Baxter - yet this influence seems to be overlooked in these parts.

 
 Posted:   Oct 28, 2014 - 12:58 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

Does the Hawaiian guitar in 1965's In Harm's Way count as Goldsmith's first use of ethnic instruments?

A centuries old European instrument adapted in only the late 19th century? No.

 
 Posted:   Oct 28, 2014 - 2:12 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I have no idea what "ethnic instruments" are. Do you simply mean instruments outside the standard orchestral complement?

Do you mean instruments associated with any ethnicity? Because that would essentially mean any instrument.

If you mean tribal percussion, it certainly goes back well before "Apes." "White Witch Doctor" by Herrmann in 1953 comes to mind, though it's far from the first.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 28, 2014 - 7:11 AM   
 By:   DougAdams   (Member)

Henry F. Gilbert’s 1911 score for The Vanishing Race used American Indian folk songs and included parts for what I believe was labelled an “Indian drum”—though Edward S. Curtis’ film, which was more of a narrated slide show than a traditional movie, wasn't made in Hollywood.

Mortimer Wilson’s 1924 Thief of Bagdad included a part for a “Persian drum” I think (don’t have the score in front of me, but the label was similar if not exact). This score debuted for the public in New York, but it was written on Douglas Fairbanks set in Hollywood and was previewed at least once for the cast and crew. It’s a little later than the Gilbert score, but still quite early.

Doug Adams

 
 Posted:   Oct 28, 2014 - 8:42 AM   
 By:   Ray Faiola   (Member)

Dimitri Tiomkin (and musical director Max Steiner) used Tibetan gongs and rata drums for LOST HORIZON in 1937. Tiomkin used native instruments the following year in his score to SPAWN OF THE NORTH.

 
 Posted:   Oct 28, 2014 - 9:22 AM   
 By:   CH-CD   (Member)


Elmer Bernstein used the Shofar in the Exodus scene in “The Ten Commandments” - 1956.

 
 Posted:   Oct 28, 2014 - 9:59 AM   
 By:   Ray Faiola   (Member)

Here's Tiomkin trying out native instruments for THE BIG SKY.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 28, 2014 - 8:26 PM   
 By:   MMM   (Member)

I think the simple answer is there were probably hundreds of scores before the 1960s that used "ethnic instruments," however you define that vague term. Every instrument was invented by a culture that is probably considered "ethnic" to some other culture. Hollywood and other film composers being the creative sorts they were, it's likely many of them tried "weird" or "exotic" sounds in countless scores just because they liked to experiment, especially involving percussion. Anyone know if any "ethnic" Japanese instruments were used in movies centered in or about Japan in the 1930s through 1950s?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2014 - 5:50 AM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

Does the Hawaiian guitar in 1965's In Harm's Way count as Goldsmith's first use of ethnic instruments?


A centuries old European instrument adapted in only the late 19th century? Yes.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2014 - 7:00 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Does the Hawaiian guitar in 1965's In Harm's Way count as Goldsmith's first use of ethnic instruments?


A centuries old European instrument adapted in only the late 19th century? Yes.



Heh heh - thanks, Timmer! Made me laugh.

Danford - has that all helped? smile

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2014 - 7:01 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

Does the Hawaiian guitar in 1965's In Harm's Way count as Goldsmith's first use of ethnic instruments?


A centuries old European instrument adapted in only the late 19th century? Yes.



Actually that's a good point big grin

 
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