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 Posted:   Aug 24, 2014 - 9:08 PM   
 By:   Regie   (Member)

I saw this film through for the first time yesterday, having seen bits and pieces of it before. The score is shocking - one of the worst I've ever heard on any film. Bad recording of orchestral music which has nothing whatever to do with the world of the film. Sounded like some bad idea from John Huston. Anyway, the film itself was a bit of a shocker too. Tiomkin credited as composer on IMBD, as I didn't see the opening titles of the film, despite knowing it was Huston in the chair. What WAS he thinking? Audrey Hepburn as an Indian. And in nearly every shot all we could see was Burt Lancaster's teeth!! He's such a great big ham, too!!

 
 Posted:   Aug 24, 2014 - 11:45 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

I saw this film through for the first time yesterday, having seen bits and pieces of it before. The score is shocking - one of the worst I've ever heard on any film. Bad recording of orchestral music which has nothing whatever to do with the world of the film. Sounded like some bad idea from John Huston. Anyway, the film itself was a bit of a shocker too. Tiomkin credited as composer on IMBD, as I didn't see the opening titles of the film, despite knowing it was Huston in the chair. What WAS he thinking? Audrey Hepburn as an Indian. And in nearly every shot all we could see was Burt Lancaster's teeth!! He's such a great big ham, too!!

Part (though not all) of the Tiomkin score's problem was the dismal sound quality of the recording. I seem to recall this was related to a musician's strike in the U. S. which forced Tiomkin to record the score in Italy with an inferior orchestra and technology. There are parts of this score that I like, but not because they have much of anything to do with the film.

 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 7:48 AM   
 By:   madmovyman   (Member)

"I like it!" - Paul McCrane as Emil M. Antonowsky in Robocop (1987)

 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 11:41 AM   
 By:   robertmro   (Member)

I love the score, even the the hollow sound.

John Huston had many problems completing the film, not the least of which was Audrey Hepburn's back injury. And he hated the result.

I happen to like the film.

Your opinion is your opinion. But this ground has been covered many times.

In short, you are a little late to the party.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 11:50 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I thought this was about the Clint Eastwood movie. Didn't realize there was another with the same name.

 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 11:56 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

I thought this was about the Clint Eastwood movie. Didn't realize there was another with the same name.

Eastwood movie: "Unforgiven"
Huston movie: "The Unforgiven" (made many years before Eastwood's)

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 11:56 AM   
 By:   James MacMillan   (Member)

I thought this was about the Clint Eastwood movie. Didn't realize there was another with the same name.


Well, it's quite simple, actually : one film is called THE UNFORGIVEN and the other film is called UNFORGIVEN. But of course, you didn't realise...

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 2:52 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

I loved John Huston as a director even though he tended to indulge himself a lot as a movie maker. He only made one disciplined by-the-book film the classic THE MALTESE FALCON. My personal favorite was THE TREASURE OF SIERRA MADRE. But some of his on-the-fly films could be turned into classics too, notably THE AFRICAN QUEEN. BEAT THE DEVIL I never could make heads or tails of. And THE UNFORGIVEN had too many divergent factions to work (Producer-actor Lancaster, Huston, Audie Murphy, Hepburn and Lilian Gish were all contentious at one time or another). But most of all pregnant Audrey Hepburn's fall from a horse, which caused her to play through most of the film with a backbrace AND was probably the cause of her eventual miscarriage probably took the edge off of making " a movie" for everybody.

BTW Audrey Hepburn playing an indian never bothered me that much and if it had been a better movie , like WEST SIDE STORY, wouldn't have got much notice.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 4:18 PM   
 By:   John B. Archibald   (Member)

For a western from 1960, THE UNFORGIVEN had a lot of provocative questions, not to mention issues. Hepburn is supposed to be Lancaster's sister, but is later discovered to not even be related, thus opening a whole floodtide of feelings.

And the racial element, as well as innate violence of the piece, still comes across as shocking. Check out Lillian Gish's reaction when a man about to be hanged for something else decides to share a secret from her past. Or Gish's later insistence on playing the piano outside.

Huston had a fondness for Audie Murphy, an underrated actor, who had starred in RED BADGE OF COURAGE, and plays one of Lancaster's brothers in this. Even Doug McLure put in some good work as another brother.

I still find the film itself fascinating, for all the levels it presents.

And I've always loved the Tiomkin score. But that was part of the period, I guess. Such music, as well as the amount of it, seems to fall on less interested ears nowadays.

Wish they'd release the complete tracks, or, better yet, a new complete recording, even though Tiomkin's music is tough to reproduce, I understand, chiefly because of his improvisatory approach when recording.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 25, 2014 - 9:52 PM   
 By:   Regie   (Member)

John, some very thought-provoking comments there!!

Tiomkin was about to be sacked by Hawks for the "Hatari" score at around the time of "The Unforgiven" - and they had been 'friends'!!!

I dislike the score and couldn't make anything of it, just its unsuitability for the film's narrative and setting.

The same screenwriter worked on "The Searchers" with its theme of miscegenation. I was wondering, whilst watching "The Unforgiven", about the American racial narrative regarding indigenous peoples and why this arose specifically as an issue post WW2. This somewhat 'revisionist' approach may have been a consequence of McCarthy era politics and the idea that groups could be demonized. Miller explored this in "The Crucible", for the stage. There seems to be, well, a crucible in society upon which some of these darker cinematic themes seem to be forged. At the right place and time these ideas become popular as narrative, in much the same way that Spike Lee's films spoke about the black experience.

Has anybody got any further theories, beyond what I've suggested, about why race and indigenous culture was revisited, re-examined and portrayed so very very darkly at that time? John Ford had really been the first, unless I'm mistaken, in his patchy "The Searchers".

 
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