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Posted: |
Apr 4, 2014 - 7:14 AM
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By: |
mastadge
(Member)
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Just wanted to open up a discussion for those who have seen it. Don't have time for full review before class, but some quick thoughts:
- Was this an elaborate way of announcing Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has been cancelled?
- Speaking of which, I think the show mentioned it has one more movie guest this season. Do you think they got one of the big guns or will we more likely be seeing Emily VanCamp or someome?
- Fury's epitaph was the best cameo in the movie.
- Speaking of cameos, why was everyone so tickled to notice Danny Pudi? Just a moment of shared geek cred?
- The movie didn't mention Agent 13's last name, did it?
- Who funds S.H.I.E.L.D. and the World Security Council and their very expensive toys?
- Is Fury just going to found a new, more grassroots S.H.I.E.L.D. now? If not, what's his role in upcoming Marvel stuff?
- And why does Black Widow think she's so indispensable?
- Really good movie, all in all, but for a movie called Winter Soldier they probably could have emphasized both the character and his role in world affairs a bit more.
- Also, for a super-covert operative he sure isn't shy about walking onto a busy street in broad daylight.
- I'm so glad they got Evans for this role.
- But is Cap a little too super now? Some of his stunts strain even vitaray-augmented credulity.
- Niggles and nitpicks aside, the best Marvel film since 2011 and possibly the best of all of them. Big and fun, stands on its own, has ramifications for upcoming films but doesn't feel like mere set-up for them. They got it right this time.
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Posted: |
Apr 4, 2014 - 8:30 AM
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By: |
Ado
(Member)
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Joe Johnston's Original Captain America is far superior, more interesting, better paced, better looking and a better score and more human all around. And I am really tired of Marvel tie in movies, and overlapping characters in the movies, the worst thing they did in Thor last year was Loki turning into Captain America. The obviousness with which these movies do not stand alone depreciates them to me.
This is not a terrible sequel, but the more they make, and the more they spend, I mean $170 million!, the further these movies get away from simple comic book qualities that made them work originally.
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Posted: |
Apr 4, 2014 - 9:22 AM
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Joe E.
(Member)
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I'll grant you a better score, but otherwise this one holds its own. Both are well-paced, interesting and human, to me.
The tie-ins, to me (and probably many, many others) are a plus rather than a minus. The comics on which these movies are based take place in a shared universe; why shouldn't the movies? I, for one, used to talk with one of my comics-loving friends decades ago about just this sort of approach to comics movie adaptations, and we used to dream of it happening, and now here it is - it's taken over 20 years since that couple of Marvel Comics-digging high schoolers entertained those fantasies, but it's happening at last, for real, and the results are pretty darn sweet. I'm gobsmacked to think there's someone out there who doesn't care for this approach. To me, it's a huge part of the reason for even doing these movies at all in the first place.
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I personally didn't like the Hydra reveal especially because it means Hydra has been in play since BEFORE Iron Man and has been waiting all this time for the exact moment to strike even though you would think the events of THE AVENGERS ASSEMBLE would have been the moment to act.
Also, they mention Stark and Banner and maybe because they've done TOO good of a job creating a multi-universe, I have to wonder where the hell those two where ESPECIALLY since we see a quick flash of the INCENTIVE machine loading images of THE AVENGERS to kill.
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Posted: |
Apr 4, 2014 - 9:54 AM
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By: |
mastadge
(Member)
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I agree with both Joe and Ado. For me, the comic book style continuity is a feature, not a bug. That said, I feel that they misstepped for a few pictures, though I can kind of understand why.
I really enjoyed the first "phase" of individual character movies, even the more problematic ones like Hulk and Iron Man 2. Great cinema? Not so much, but as popcorn entertainment it was pretty much the cream of the crop for 3 years running. Good fun, not too big for its britches, not as stupid as some of the other tentpoles. I also felt pretty meh about The Avengers, but I suspect that's because they had to play that movie pretty safe until they saw how their experiment worked. I also fail to understand the acclaim for Iron Man 3, which came across as pretty half-assed to me, and they also dropped the ball on the Thor sequel and the TV show. But this felt like a real movie again. It was big, it was fun. It's what I'm looking for in summer spectacles. And now that Marvel has its colorful, humorous brand well-established, they're definitely looking to take some more risks with the material. Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man and Dr. Strange entering the mix in the next few years? The "Marvel Knights" Netflix series doing a TV version of the Avengers build-up? Yep, I'm definitely onboard even for a couple clunkers every few years if they can successfully diversify their portfolio and continue to build fun new characters into this universe.
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Posted: |
Apr 4, 2014 - 9:57 AM
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By: |
mastadge
(Member)
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I agree with both Joe and Ado. For me, the comic book style continuity is a feature, not a bug. That said, I feel that they misstepped for a few pictures, though I can kind of understand why.
I really enjoyed the first "phase" of individual character movies, even the more problematic ones like Hulk and Iron Man 2. Great cinema? Not so much, but as popcorn entertainment it was pretty much the cream of the crop for 3 years running. Good fun, not too big for its britches, not as stupid as some of the other tentpoles. I also felt pretty meh about The Avengers, but I suspect that's because they had to play that movie pretty safe until they saw how their experiment worked. I also fail to understand the acclaim for Iron Man 3, which came across as pretty half-assed to me, and they also dropped the ball on the Thor sequel and the TV show. But this felt like a real movie again. It was big, it was fun. It's what I'm looking for in summer spectacles. And now that Marvel has its colorful, humorous brand well-established, they're definitely looking to take some more risks with the material. Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man and Dr. Strange entering the mix in the next few years? The "Marvel Knights" Netflix series doing a TV version of the Avengers build-up? Yep, I'm definitely onboard even for a couple clunkers every few years if they can successfully diversify their portfolio and continue to build fun new characters into this universe.
As for BJBien's complaint, which I've seen elsewhere, I don't think it's too much to swallow. Didn't Stark more or less step down at the end of his last movie? He wouldn't have any reason to get involved in the internecine SHIELD stuff, and it would be easy to say he was busy elsewhere for the short period of time that the big climactic stuff was going down. Same with Banner: he's probably off in the wilderness somewhere, and even if he's not I don't think anyone would want the Hulk smashing in the middle of a conflict where you can't tell friend from foe -- or in the middle of DC ever, for that matter!
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Posted: |
Apr 4, 2014 - 8:13 PM
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By: |
David-R.
(Member)
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Just wanted to open up a discussion for those who have seen it. Don't have time for full review before class, but some quick thoughts:
- Was this an elaborate way of announcing Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has been cancelled?
- Is Fury just going to found a new, more grassroots S.H.I.E.L.D. now? If not, what's his role in upcoming Marvel stuff?
- Really good movie, all in all, but for a movie called Winter Soldier they probably could have emphasized both the character and his role in world affairs a bit more.
- Also, for a super-covert operative he sure isn't shy about walking onto a busy street in broad daylight.
- But is Cap a little too super now? Some of his stunts strain even vitaray-augmented credulity.
- Niggles and nitpicks aside, the best Marvel film since 2011 and possibly the best of all of them. Big and fun, stands on its own, has ramifications for upcoming films but doesn't feel like mere set-up for them. They got it right this time.
- For the TV show: I don't know. I would assume they want it to keep going, possibly Season 2 will be called something different (I can see them taking different jobs: "Agents of I.R.S."). And there are 4 episodes left... How will they drag wrap stuff up?
- Also a good questions about Fury. I'm interested to see what happens to him.
- The Winter Soldier did seem to abandon the whole 'covert' thing in the middle of one of the cities with the most surveillance ever.
- And yes, I agree that Cap seemed even more super. He was originally described as 25% more than perfectly fit person, but he fell long ways and did several stunts that would seriously handicap most people. Landing on a giant shield doesn't absorb a multi-story drop impact.
But overall, loved the film. By far the best Phase II film and probably my second favorite just under The Avengers. And I'm glad that both end credit scenes were important and set up for future potential. (And now I guess we know how the two mutants join the crew. Cap and/or Fury and/or others bust up a Hydra camp and rescue them).
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It looked to me like FURY retired.
His burning of everything and wanting to stay dead seems to tell me that he's done with the life.
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So it last night and fricking loved it. I was losing hope, honestly. Iron Man's 2 & 3 were pretty meh (with #3 being kinda awful) and Thor 2 was underwhelming. But this one was head and shoulders on of the top Marvel films for me and the best sequel since X2 and Spider-Man 2.
- The movie didn't mention Agent 13's last name, did it?.
Just her first name. "Sharon." Comic fans know her connection to Cap's past, something they decided not to reveal at this time.
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Posted: |
Apr 7, 2014 - 9:34 AM
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By: |
Joe E.
(Member)
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I loved it as well, but then I've immensely enjoyed all of them, including the ones others above me aren't so fond of.
_________________________________________________
io9 has some comments this morning on how this ties into and affects Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.:
Following the release of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, one huge question is how the film's treatment of SHIELD will affect the show. I know this is Morning Spoilers, but I'm giving a spoiler warning for The Winter Soldier again:
It sounds like the producers and writers always knew what was coming, and have been planning for it. The focus on the external threats like Centipede and the Clairvoyant was done because they couldn't spend too much time looking at SHIELD, for fear they'd run afoul of the HYDRA/SHIELD twist in the movie. However, with the film finally out, it appears that the Clairvoyant, Deathlok, etc. will be connected back to HYDRA. Says executive producer Maurissa Tancharoen of the future of the team:
"Survival is a huge part of it. There is no more tapping into big S.H.I.E.L.D. through the holo-comm. The guns you have on the plane are the guns you have. They're basically left with the bare minimum."
For Agent Coulson, Clark Gregg says:
"[The show is] about a company man who finds out that everything he's dedicated his life to is not what he thought it was. To have everything dissolve around him to the point that S.H.I.E.L.D. itself is in smoking ruins (and have) that crisis of faith is such an amazing thing to explore.
... I'm a little old for it, but I'm the one texting, 'OMG! OMG! Oh no, you traitor!' It's kind of hilarious. People are racing to their car to read the new scripts and find out what new Hydra betrayal is going to be revealed."
[USA Today]
Elizabeth Henstridge talked about how Simmons will react:
"Simmons desperately wants to be like, 'It doesn't matter,' but she's lost for the first time, as everything she believes in is challenged. This is the first time that she's not positive about a situation."
http://io9.com/how-does-captain-america-2s-huge-twist-affect-the-aven-1559620860
It sounds like the show will portray the shake-up with S.H.I.E.L.D. in pretty much the way one would expect given the events in the movie (without knowing details and what it means for the specific core characters of the show, of course).
There's some more at the link pertaining to The Avengers: Age of Ultron (as well as a bunch of non-MCU movies and shows).
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Posted: |
Apr 10, 2014 - 3:28 AM
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By: |
CinemaScope
(Member)
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Joe Johnston's Original Captain America is far superior, more interesting, better paced, better looking and a better score and more human all around. And I am really tired of Marvel tie in movies, and overlapping characters in the movies, the worst thing they did in Thor last year was Loki turning into Captain America. The obviousness with which these movies do not stand alone depreciates them to me.
This is not a terrible sequel, but the more they make, and the more they spend, I mean $170 million!, the further these movies get away from simple comic book qualities that made them work originally.
Totally with you there. I won't even bother to see the sequel, a load of action & a shed load of CGI, yawn. What made the first on great, is that it was set in the forties during the war, & it had a real 40's Republic Serials vibe to it, esp. with the baddy & the designs of his craft & weapons. It was like I was back in the late fifties seeing those great serials on Saturday morning.
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