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 Posted:   Dec 23, 2017 - 7:49 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Did Hamill know Luke was going to die in the film? The look on his face at around the 4 minute mark is PRICELESS!!!




 
 Posted:   Dec 24, 2017 - 3:48 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Considering how Star Wars is an obsession for all of us around here, it's surprising that more haven't commented on the film yet.

For those who profess to like it, it is to me staggering that anyone could proclaim this, especially with what was done with Luke's character and how Rey's character isn't fleshed out at all.

So my questions to those who liked The Last Jedi: Was Luke written consistently and satisfactorily to you? If so, which scenes show this? Did his motivations make sense? What is it about Rey that makes her such an important character? Did you find the suddenness of her development consistent with how Luke developed in TESB and ROTJ?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 24, 2017 - 5:33 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

Considering how Star Wars is an obsession for all of us around here, it's surprising that more haven't commented on the film yet.

For those who profess to like it, it is to me staggering that anyone could proclaim this, especially with what was done with Luke's character and how Rey's character isn't fleshed out at all.

So my questions to those who liked The Last Jedi: Was Luke written consistently and satisfactorily to you? If so, which scenes show this? Did his motivations make sense? What is it about Rey that makes her such an important character? Did you find the suddenness of her development consistent with how Luke developed in TESB and ROTJ?


Luke in TLJ is not the same character from the OT. The old Luke was willing to sacrifice himself to redeem his father, this imposter wants to kill his nephew in bed. The real Luke put aside his own pain to fight the Empire, this one sulks about his mistake with some space puffins.

As regards Rey, I. TLJ she proves that all this tosh about training Jedi is unnecessary. Basically, Luke tells her to breath a bit and - voila she is now a Jedi. There is no growth at all.

I found TLJ ok, certainly better than TFA. But it is a deeply unsatisfactory and unsatisfying movie with so much poor writing. For example the entire subplot with Finn and Rose Taco or whatever her name is utterly pointless. Also pointless is why Laura Dean and her cocktail dress can’t tell Poe what her plan is (and wait, Poe is demoted???? This movie takes place within hours of him destroying Starkiller base -geez, and they say the First Order is strict!).

The death of Snoke just looks like they wrote a character they didn’t know where to go with. Captain Phasma lives up to the prophecy that every Star Wars trilogy must introduce a cool looking villain who is actually totally lame (Both Fetts, General Grievous). And don’t even get me started to Leia Poppins.

I once thought of myself as a huge Star Wars fan but I’ve revised that view - I’m a huge fan of episodes IV and V and that’s it - every other movie in the saga since then has been really rather mediocre and TLJ is no different.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 24, 2017 - 5:43 AM   
 By:   jenkwombat   (Member)

I agree with you, Mike J, about Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) not telling Poe about the plan was silly and just "false drama". It made no sense. It registered that way for me on first viewing, too... confused Although I enjoyed the film overall, that was a sticking point for me....

 
 Posted:   Dec 24, 2017 - 6:41 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

How about the fact Poe IS Starbuck! Glen A. Larson should sue them for ripping off Battlestar Galactica!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 24, 2017 - 7:34 AM   
 By:   Xebec   (Member)

ISIS destroy ancient landmarks and tomes of significance.

Yoda destroys the Jedi Tree and ancient Jedi scrolls (Luke's pornographic art scroll collection).

Yoda = ISIS

Fact!!!!


I would argue that Yoda represents Mao's Red Guards, who desecrated Ming Dynasty artifacts in the 1960s. This would reflect the types of actions taken by SJW Millennials, who seek to banish all opposing viewpoints other than their own.


One-upper!

 
 Posted:   Jan 2, 2018 - 12:32 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Why haven't there been more posts critically discussing The Last Jedi (the film, not Johnny's score)? Does the film's tragic badness cause the average FSMer to delve deeply into the treasures of JW's score so that they might not have to contemplate just how awful The Last Jedi (the movie) is?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 2, 2018 - 1:24 PM   
 By:   Rick15   (Member)

Why haven't there been more posts critically discussing The Last Jedi (the film, not Johnny's score)? Does the film's tragic badness cause the average FSMer to delve deeply into the treasures of JW's score so that they might not have to contemplate just how awful The Last Jedi (the movie) is?

Probably

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 4:02 AM   
 By:   michael469   (Member)

Why haven't there been more posts critically discussing The Last Jedi (the film, not Johnny's score)? Does the film's tragic badness cause the average FSMer to delve deeply into the treasures of JW's score so that they might not have to contemplate just how awful The Last Jedi (the movie) is?

I have posted a few comments elsewhere on this forum regarding TLJ film. But when all is said and done, the one commentary that is really very good in summarising my perspective - in fact a series of commentaries - is by Dave Stewart on youtube. Indeed, a poster has flagged up his Analysis video of TLJ a few pages back on this thread.

I left the film with my wife and son and we were completely bewildered at what we had witnessed. We had driven for 1 hour to a large screen cinema and paid quite a lot of money for the tickets and we felt we were subjected to a very bad viewing experience. The badness is described in detail in Dave Stewart's erudite videos, and for me he has hit the nail squarely on the head.

EDIT. Oh, and here is another youtube video discussing some of the SJW points that many feel are problematic in TLJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16OOgx63Xts

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 6:14 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Why haven't there been more posts critically discussing The Last Jedi (the film, not Johnny's score)? Does the film's tragic badness cause the average FSMer to delve deeply into the treasures of JW's score so that they might not have to contemplate just how awful The Last Jedi (the movie) is?

I have posted a few comments elsewhere on this forum regarding TLJ film. But when all is said and done, the one commentary that is really very good in summarising my perspective - in fact a series of commentaries - is by Dave Stewart on youtube. Indeed, a poster has flagged up his Analysis video of TLJ a few pages back on this thread.

I left the film with my wife and son and we were completely bewildered at what we had witnessed. We had driven for 1 hour to a large screen cinema and paid quite a lot of money for the tickets and we felt we were subjected to a very bad viewing experience. The badness is described in detail in Dave Stewart's erudite videos, and for me he has hit the nail squarely on the head.

EDIT. Oh, and here is another youtube video discussing some of the SJW points that many feel are problematic in TLJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16OOgx63Xts


I couldn't agree with her more. Though we live in a paradox world. TLJ is getting panned and yet it's already made over a billion dollars. This just tells Kennedy and Disney full speed ahead with what they're doing.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I think this new Star Wars Trilogy is "ok". It's not great, it's not "wow", it's not even better than the prequel trilogy so far. At least not in my opinion. Yeah, I know, lots of problems with the prequel trilogy, but at least it showed a world and universe different from what we've already seen in the original trilogy. This new trilogy is at times so earnest and bleak, but without the substance to sustain itself. The movie entertained me for its running time, so I guess it's not all bad, and I enjoyed Benicio del Toro and the entire Casino planet scene was pretty cool (because unexpected... I went into the movie spoiler free) ... but in the end, it is just an "ok" space opera.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 7:54 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Some quick thoughts-

(1) Finn serves no purpose in this franchise. He was conceived only to attract the minority audience. Same as Rose in this film.


I agree. And he's still one of the more interesting characters.


(2) I don't care how much ppl rag on Laura Dern. Even with a stupid hairdo she's a magical presence on screen.


Yep, she's the other interesting character.


(3) This film forwards nothing from The Force Awakens. And actuality disposes of a lot of it instead.


Indeed and strangely so.


(4) I LOVED Jesus Lea! They just went nowhere with it. (I know this is the #one most hated scene in the film)


I'm among those who hated it. Oh, ok, I did not "hate" it. I just didn't care for it. Felt out of place, contrived and silly.


(5) Luke really didn't train Rey anything. She trained herself. So, why she stick around?


She's starstruck. Luke is now a superfamous legendary Jedi.


(6) This film has some of my favorite alien creatures in a Star Wars film. The rabbit horses, the ice crystal foxes, and yes those cute adorable porgs. :-P


Agreed.


(7) The one liners were cringe worthy. Never chuckled not once.


Same here.


(8) The light speed jump into a whole armada of bad guy ships was the coolest visual effects I've seen in a very long time!


Yeah, if STAR WARS is good for one thing, it is space ship razzle-dazzle. I enjoyed the attack on the salt planet too!


(9) Luke just like Han in TFA was treated like a pathetic sad old man and just as haphazardly disposed of.


Yep. Though at least Han was still grumpy old Han... in this movie, Luke was just a grumpy old man... somehow there was little Luke left in him.


(10) The whole build up, the last stand, the climax never really happened. It kinda started then came to a screeching halt. I was expecting an epic climatic ground assault. Thumbs way down.


It had SUPERLUKE.


(11) Snorks double manipulation was brilliant and one of the high points of the story. I also love how there's a connection between Ren and Ray. But then moments later his brilliance as a mastermind fails to save him from the most obvious of assassination attempts.


He became another grumpy old has been to be offed.


(12) The scene between Luke and Lea had my heart in my stomach. Ugh!

(13) Chewy is a nothing character without Han Solo to work off of.

(14) Poe IS Starbuck! WFT Disney?!


Yep.
Yep. Though to be fair, he wasn't much in this movie for that reason, I guess.
Yep.



(15) I found much of the tension gripping between Emo Boy and Mary Sue. (Sorry I’m always sarcastic) I truly liked what they were doing and for the first time interested in their development in the series.

(16) Oh and Chrome head! Everyone bitched how underused she was in TFA's, and while she presumably died on the Star Killer thing, miraculously returns just be underused and killed off again!


Yep.

I think for the next movie, they could rebuild the Death Sta--- er, sorry, the Starkiller Base. And then the rebelli-- er, I mean the resistance must destroy it before it is finished and operational.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 7:58 AM   
 By:   Christian K   (Member)

(8) The light speed jump into a whole armada of bad guy ships was the coolest visual effects I've seen in a very long time!

I only caught the film a couple of days ago, and I agree this was a fantastic effect.

(Pretty much agreed on all the other points you raised...)

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 8:36 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

(3) This film forwards nothing from The Force Awakens. And actuality disposes of a lot of it instead.

Indeed and strangely so.



Unfortunately there's no master outline where they are going, they're letting each team write the story as they go, and letting the directors go into any direction they want. (up to a point)

So now JJ gets the franchise back for at least one film. Is he going to resurrect all his ideas dumped in TLJ? Or just try to write through it? Either way it's just an awkward mess.

If I was Disney, I would end with this three film arc, dump all the characters, and start over. Which I think based on what I heard what they plan to do.

But when you start over, please write a three story arc up front, know where you're going, and keep a consistent vision.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)



Unfortunately there's no master outline where they are going, they're letting each team write the story as they go, and letting the directors go into any direction they want. (up to a point)


And it shows. That's what really killed Moore's Battlestar Galactica, which started with two great seasons and ended with two poor ones (as far as story arc was concerned).

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)



Unfortunately there's no master outline where they are going, they're letting each team write the story as they go, and letting the directors go into any direction they want. (up to a point)


And it shows. That's what really killed Moore's Battlestar Galactica, which started with two great seasons and ended with two poor ones (as far as story arc was concerned).


Me too. I was a BSG fanatic in 2005. I was lucky enough to have coffee with Nicki Clyne.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2018 - 11:58 PM   
 By:   Rick15   (Member)

This film forwards nothing from The Force Awakens. And actuality disposes of a lot of it instead.

Unfortunately there's no master outline where they are going, they're letting each team write the story as they go, and letting the directors go into any direction they want. (up to a point)

But when you start over, please write a three story arc up front, know where you're going, and keep a consistent vision.


I think this is my biggest disappointment with the franchise. Granted, the original trilogy wasn't exactly sure where it was going but still managed an arc for the main characters. But that was different times as well.

Surely they knew where there were going with this trilogy. JJ teased an entertaining (but ultimately hollow) opener. The Rian came in....reportedly decided that he didn't think some characters fit with his vision (e.g.: Snoke) and had them killed off....the movie was a mess that did away with plot lines from the first movie and - as noted by another poster - forwards nothing from The Force Awakens.

You would think that the idea going in was to make a trilogy that had a consistent overarching story and was true to the main characters. It seems we got none of that.

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2018 - 5:53 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

This film forwards nothing from The Force Awakens. And actuality disposes of a lot of it instead.

Unfortunately there's no master outline where they are going, they're letting each team write the story as they go, and letting the directors go into any direction they want. (up to a point)

But when you start over, please write a three story arc up front, know where you're going, and keep a consistent vision.


I think this is my biggest disappointment with the franchise. Granted, the original trilogy wasn't exactly sure where it was going but still managed an arc for the main characters. But that was different times as well.

Surely they knew where there were going with this trilogy. JJ teased an entertaining (but ultimately hollow) opener. The Rian came in....reportedly decided that he didn't think some characters fit with his vision (e.g.: Snoke) and had them killed off....the movie was a mess that did away with plot lines from the first movie and - as noted by another poster - forwards nothing from The Force Awakens.

You would think that the idea going in was to make a trilogy that had a consistent overarching story and was true to the main characters. It seems we got none of that.


Disney is simply over extended. They buy up everything then rush it to market. But again the irony is, this stupid film has made over a billion dollars in a very short period of time and the number one or two top film of 2017. So sucks for us, but great for Disney. They don't have to put any effort or consideration into their product.

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2018 - 5:55 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of Star Wars fans.

(apologies to H.L. Mencken and George Lucas)

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2018 - 6:23 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

STAR WARS has a hard core built in audience. Tommy Wiseau could direct a STAR WARS movie and people would line up to see it. (Heck, I sure would.)
The Star Wars movies stand for state of the art special effects and space ship battles. They are "event" movies, I watch them for the spectacle. There's really not much substance to them or anything that has deeper resonance (as had for example the Lord of the Rings movies, which were likewise "event" movies).

 
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