 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I would have been happy to add my comments to an existing thread, but it would not have gotten bumped,.....
????????????
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for that humorous opening post, hilarious!
LOL!
|
|
|
|
|
|
The dialogue here, though sparse, is essential to comprehension, and the loud, percussive music all but obliterates the words and therefore the significance.
Surely that's the fault of the music editor rather than the composer. In any case Bernstein was new to film scoring and should have been advised. Don't tell me Kazan couldn't have had a quiet word in his ear.
In a May, 1954 article in the New York Times, Bernstein described the dubbing sessions for the film. He was so enthralled after initially seeing the film that he agreed to score it. He related he watched the film on a moviola more than 50 times, in full or in part, until he almost felt that the music was the most important part of the film.
He related the old Hollywood joke (as true today as then) that the composer "had better listen hard to the playback of his score on the recording stage, for he may never hear it again."
He described the dubbing sessions where he, along with the producer, director, chief editor, and music cutters attending, "all of whom have conflicting notions of how to achieve the best results." He also mentions that it was unusual for the composer to be present during the dubbing (presumably he was told this by Columbia employees). He goes on to describe how an entire cue might be cut, or turned off completely for a few seconds to allow a line dialogue to stand out, or a cue dialed down before completion.
So the opinion of the original poster is based on ignorance of the process involved in the creation of the final soundtrack mix. If the music overshadowed parts of the dialogue it was reached by a consensus of the powers in the dubbing room. It's clear from Bernstein's tone in the article that the experience - while he wouldn't have missed it - soured him on further film scoring.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Is there the inference here that Intrada has located the original mono tapes recorded by Bernstein for the soundtrack? I read a similar thread begun some nine years ago at the Intrada forum indicating that the complete mono Bernstein sessions had been discovered, and would be released by the label on cd. Obviously, this never happened. Has anyone an update on any kind of legitimate release from Intrada? I have long regarded Bernstein's towering score for this brilliant film as one of the defining moments of motion picture scoring. It would be tremendously exciting to own, at last, the original soundtrack for "On The Waterfront," minus sound effects and dialogue. Bernstein's masterwork is long overdue for restoration and release.
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
|
For all those people who can't understand this score after early viewings/listenings, I've got to say that, early on, not only did I not particularly care for this score, but I didn't care so much for the FILM either. But over the years, I grew to understand the depth of the story and the performances. After that enlightenment, I began to re-evaluate the score too.
At this current point in my life, I have to say, I rank this as one of the greatest American films, and easily amongst my top 20 film scores. I understand the usual flack... Bernstein did not score this film in the way some Hollywood films would be scored at this time, so many consider it "over the top." BUT, look at the film! Seriously, some sequences are also the top, and are edited as though they are sequences in a stage musical/ballet; or they represent new ideas not before seen on the screen. Bernstein certainly had the right to follow his musical/musical theatre instincts (and to great advantage, I think) to match these cinematic moments. Just listen to the savagery of the dockworkers' music or the heartbreaking poignancy of the music when Brando finds his dead brother! As a whole, his score creates a whole NEW sound landscape, found almost nowhere else in film scores of the time. I thoroughly applaud it. His score helps elevate the film into a higher realm than it would have been without it. It is really one of the first scores to be, not just an underscore, but an integral part of the fabric of the emotion and character of the film, just as Herrmann would be later in VERTIGO, or many years later, Philip Glass would be in films like KOYANASQQATSI.
I'm sure many will hold on to the ancient unfavorable views of the WATERFRONT score, and so I have decided I will not answer further posts about my opinions on this score. I know MY opinion, and I know my opinion has changed radically over the years; I only hope that others' malicious feelings toward this score will also change, and they'll see what a breakthrough score this was.
Bravo, Leonard Bernstein.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And yes, echoing Steve Vertliebs's post, has Intrada got something?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks, Jim, for your thoughts on the music. Bernstein's score for "On The Waterfront," is a monumental achievement, and remains one of the greatest American film scores of the fifties. It shares a unique place in the evolution of modern motion picture music and, together with Sainton's score for "Moby Dick," Friedhofer's majestic work for "The Best Years Of Our Lives," and John Green's "Raintree County," represents a high water mark in symphonic realism and original film music of the post war era.
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Apr 8, 2014 - 6:08 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
orbital
(Member)
|
@ Steve & Jim:
Here are some quotes from Douglass Fake's opening post from last year's thread:
http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5709
"(...) Sadly, some misinformation is going around with respect to the newly discovered masters and the Criterion Blu-ray. So people, here are the facts... straight from the vaults.
Yes, the complete elements have been located and are being readied for release. But EVERYTHING is in mono. Superb mono, but still mono. There are NO stereo masters. (...)
BUT - the GOOD news is... recently, in their exhaustive searching, the COMPLETE actual scoring session masters with the music intact exactly as recorded by Leonard Bernstein HAVE been located. These were made directly onto acetate for safety checks during the recording sessions and happily survived intact. Yes, complete. Every note of this masterful score survives, albeit in mono and from acetate discs. These are the ONLY scoring session elements in existence, preserving the complete cues without any edits, trims, volume dips and other anomalies of the film's M&E tracks used by Chace to enhance the audio for the film itself. These mono safety discs are the only sources for the true, unedited music cues Bernstein recorded. And it is dream come true that they were located. (...)
So, yes, this masterpiece of film scoring is finally coming to you at last, complete, in mono audio from discs, with all of the string harmonics and delicate colors playing crisply against the most powerful orchestral crescendos you could ever hope to hear... everything from that lonely opening solo French horn to that final thundering full orchestral coda.
A historic soundtrack event if there ever was one. 
--Doug"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
While the music seems to work better as a pure listening experience apart from the film, I can't imagine the film without it, and probably never would have bought the Criterion Blu-ray without it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I agree, Ray. Kazan's masterpiece will live on as one of the truly great American films of the sound era, while Bernstein's magnificent music is uniquely powerful and eloquently stated. Both the film and its music stand out among a hand full of lifetime favorite films and scores. Either from a visual or musical frame of reference, "On The Waterfront" remains the sheerest poetry. I hope that Intrada will honor us with this landmark CD release soon.
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bernstein, however did teach two future film composers - Herschel Burke Gilbert and Joe Harnell. Gilbert was C.B.S.' West Coast Music Director for one year when Bernstein was doing the "Young People's Concerts".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
