You're delusional if you think Zack's movie only had minor tweaks.
Well, the DGA would seemingly agree with my delusional view too, otherwise they would have insisted that Weedon got a director's credit.
All you have done is picked a few examples showing Weedon's fingerprints on the movie - and I don't disagree with those observations. But if that's the best you've got, you really haven't made your argument very well. For every one of the Weedon influences you have cited I could point to 10 times as many Snyder touches.
Using your logic, I could also prove that Poltergeist was unquestionably directed by Tobe Hooper.
Exactly. Regardless of Weedon's personal touches here and there, it's Synders film in every other way. To say otherwise, would be intellectually dishonest.
You're delusional if you think Zack's movie only had minor tweaks.
Well, the DGA would seemingly agree with my delusional view too, otherwise they would have insisted that Weedon got a director's credit.
All you have done is picked a few examples showing Weedon's fingerprints on the movie - and I don't disagree with those observations. But if that's the best you've got, you really haven't made your argument very well. For every one of the Weedon influences you have cited I could point to 10 times as many Snyder touches.
Using your logic, I could also prove that Poltergeist was unquestionably directed by Tobe Hooper.
Whedon reshot scenes that now look completely different than what we first saw in the trailers, and he also wrote new scenes, changed dialogue, took out dialogue and footage, and repurposed footage from its original location within the script. These reshoots also brought the budget up another $25 million simply because Paramount wouldn't let Henry Cavill shave his moustache, because Joss had to, among other things, show Batman writhing around on the ground and complaining that something was bleeding, like Burton-era Batman. People who say they can't tell the difference between Snyder and Whedon must stare an awful lot at their iPhone or Galaxy while "watching" a movie.
Don't think Whedon changed a lot? Tell cinematographer Fabian Wagner, who has now stepped up to say Zack's cut should get released.
Just because you don't see "Directed by Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon" doesn't mean zip. Joss still got paid.
Saw the film last week. More of the same to me. These super hero films REALLY need some kind of wheel re-invention trick before the whole thing collapses from same-again-itis. I enjoyed it (in the same way I've enjoyed the Marvel variations) but I'd never sit through it again (in the same way I could never sit through the Marvel variants). The lighter tone helped (I disliked MAN OF STEEL intensely and swerved BAT V SUPES as a result). Plus, Elfman's music was a major thumbs-up. It was nice to hear orchestra and counterpoint again AND those two iconic themes returning was ace. The cheapest place to buy the CD was my local HMV, which was also cool. How nice to visit a proper shop, buy the disc(s) and not find it £5 cheaper online. Lovely package too. Lots of colour stills from the film in the first half of the booklet. Lots of colour stills from the recording sessions in the second half. Nice job all around.
Finally saw the film over the weekend. For the most part, I have no idea where Snyder ends and Whedon begins. It probably doesn't help that Whedon was rewriting the film even before Snyder left. Anyway, regardless of who did what, the film still had some fundamental problems that date back way before Whedon's involvement.
The biggest problem is that WB made more or less made the same mistake they made with Green Lantern: which is assuming the success of the first film, and holding back the most interesting parts for the next film. For example, GL had probably the best casting for Sinestro and even introduced the yellow ring, and yet who does Hal fight? A cloud and a creepy character who is creepy for all the wrong reasons. With Justice League, Apokolips is invading Earth, something that is foreshadowed in Batman v Superman, and they use Steppenwolf instead of Darkseid? The end clearly suggests Darkseid is summoning Steppenwolf back to be punished for his failure, and will presumably take matters into his own hands, but we have to wait for another movie to see him. Not using Darkseid to launch the league is incredibly stupid, but it could be forgiven if Steppenwolf was even remotely interesting. He isn't, and I can't imagine any number of deleted scenes would have made him so. For those who complain about how lame Malekith from Thor the Dark World was (and he was a weak villain), the DCEU just lowered that bar. The League's choice to resurrect Superman also seemed bizarre. It would be one thing if he was still alive, which seemed implied at the end of Batman v Superman, and simply needed his metabolism jump started. But in this film, he is seemingly really dead, and they decide to bring him back from the dead, which seems out of place for a bunch of aspirational heroes.
Assuming this isn't the last Justice League film I do like Injustice League being teased at the end of the film. Personally, I prefer the Legion of Doom variety including the Darth Vader helmet base in the swamp.
The film wasn't all bad. I did like the first battle with Steppenwolf, including the Green Lantern cameo, and the poor GL's death. I liked that they finally acknowledge that Superman has super speed particularly when Flash is trying to run around crazy Superman, and it is clear that Superman can follow Flash, and Flash's reaction when he realizes there is someone who can keep up with him. Flash was handled well, although he bears almost no resemblance to any Barry Allen I read. Still, Ezra Miller did a great job. Aquaman has potential, and I am more interested in seeing his film now then I was before walking into the movie.
I am on the fence with Elfman's score. The sound effects seemed to drown out most of it, so I am looking forward to hearing it when I get the cd. The only time I heard Williams' Superman theme was when crazy Superman flew to the Metropolis memorial, which didn't seem its best timing. I personally would have used it when Superman first confronts Steppenwolf.
I did like the Zimmer/Junkie-XL score for Batman v Superman, and I would have been curious to hear what Junkie would have done with the score to this film. As I said, I need to hear Elfman's score away from the film before I can really form an opinion.
"They want to remind us of the Batman and Superman we love while having a Batman and Superman we don’t up on-screen in the hopes one will supersede the other. It’s insulting to both those creators and the ones currently looking to make their mark."
Warners is mum as to the final cost of the film. But as of 7 December (after 3 weeks of release), JUSTICE LEAGUE has grossed $202 million in the U.S. and $372 million in the rest of the world, for a total of $574 million.
As a point of comparison, THOR: RAGNAROK has grossed $821 million in five weeks of release. And BATMAN v SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE took in $873 million during its entire run (about 12 weeks).
Hmmmm, for quite a troubled production, if it heaves itself to 750-800, that ain't bad, considering the bad feeling towards the previous episodes. I wonder if people seeing this one (after the hugely popular WW) are more energised towards the DCU now, or less. It's certainly got the best score of the franchise, to my ears.
Hmmmm, for quite a troubled production, if it heaves itself to 750-800, that ain't bad, considering the bad feeling towards the previous episodes.
The film's box office was underwhelming, to say the least. As a result, Warner Bros. is replacing the head of the comic book film division, and possibly folding that division into the overall movie division. While "Wonder Woman" was a big success, the other films in this DC series have failed to get much traction, and it seems they're going to stop stubbornly trying to out-dour themselves with each successive movie.
I saw the movie the other day, and certainly didn't think it was the train wreck that some are calling it. The worst I can say about it is that it was kinda standard-issue, perfunctory... it didn't have the freshness and delightfulness of THE AVENGERS, which it was clearly modeled after, but it also wasn't as painful or as utterly stupid as BATMAN V. SUPERMAN was for large segments.
I wasn't crazy about Elfman's music on CD, outside of "Hero's Theme" and a few other key tracks, but I thought the score worked well in the picture. All the characters have clear motifs, however derivative of past works, and the big, unifying "Justice League" theme is catchy and pays off at the right moments.
I think Elfman wrote the right score for the movie, although I realize that that's a fairly dubious compliment... he didn't really have that much to work with. There's not much to any of the characters in the film... they're broad archetypes who don't want to do much other than stop the bad guy. Batman feels guilty about having let Superman die in the last movie... Wonder Woman is uneasy about taking up the mantle of leadership... Cyborg appears to feel mildly conflicted about the fact that he's part robot... or not, I don't know. Steppenwolf has big, broad bad-guy chords... which is appropriate, I guess, because there's literally nothing noteworthy about him, save for the fact that he's doing evil stuff. The best new musical idea that Elfman brought to the score is the one for The Flash, which seems to make a mark where the other new individual character themes do not.
So anyway... I don't think anything about this movie will really have any kind of long-lasting cultural impact, but it's also not a embarrassment or anything. I'd rather Elfman score a movie a like this than Junkie XL or whichever Hans Zimmer employee won the office lottery when the assignment was being handed out, even if the end the result is a little underwhelming.
Hmmmm, for quite a troubled production, if it heaves itself to 750-800, that ain't bad, considering the bad feeling towards the previous episodes.
The film's box office was underwhelming, to say the least. As a result, Warner Bros. is replacing the head of the comic book film division, and possibly folding that division into the overall movie division. While "Wonder Woman" was a big success, the other films in this DC series have failed to get much traction, and it seems they're going to stop stubbornly trying to out-dour themselves with each successive movie.
Other possible changes: ""Time Warner is said to be frustrated that Warner Bros. leaders continue to bring the director back, especially after “Batman v Superman” was excoriated by critics even though it made money""
If anyone hasn't seen the movie, well its a sad case of what could have been.
You can clearly see the Joss Whedon reshot or newly shot scenes as they are nowhere as well made as Zack Snyders, but its the score which really fails in this.
I've always like Danny Elfman's work and he's a perfectly good composer for movies, but its clear his music just doesn't fit this particular vision set forth in the previous two films. He shouldn't have been hired. I struggle to fathom why Junkie XL was fired and Elfman hired.
All the previous DC movies have had strong distinct scores in marked contrast to the Marvel movies which usually have no constant themes or familiar aspects. WB have really destroyed this movie by allowing Whedon to hire Elfman, who really fails to continue the themes of the previous two. I have no doubt that Junkie XL would have implemented the previous two films themes and added new ones to make this film a perfect trilogy.
I rewatched both Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice and both the scores were perfectly suited to the visuals.
With Justice League, what we got was a clearly outdated feel and lacking the themes from the previous two films. These films have a particular visual style, and Elfman's style just doesn't fit at all, very underwhelming and bordering on campy at times i'm sad to say.
There was none of the Zimmer Man of Steel score pieces, nor was there the Junkie XL Dawn of Justice theme elements.
This felt like a generic and frankly boring score which belongs in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Not to mention that Danny Elfman has shown immense lack of respect and an ego in which he has ruined a structure that was put in place from the first two movies and Wonder Woman. Sure, Zimmer and Junkie XL may not be to the purists taste, but their use of heavy percussion drums and themes work a million times better than what Elfman gave us.
Very sad to see what could have been a great film ruined. The shirt rip at the end was underwhelming beyond belief. Look how using themes already established improves them.
You can see how much the movie improves with even small changes of score.
If anyone hasn't seen the movie, well its a sad case of what could have been.
You can clearly see the Joss Whedon reshot or newly shot scenes as they are nowhere as well made as Zack Snyders, but its the score which really fails in this.
I've always like Danny Elfman's work and he's a perfectly good composer for movies, but its clear his music just doesn't fit this particular vision set forth in the previous two films. He shouldn't have been hired. I struggle to fathom why Junkie XL was fired and Elfman hired.
All the previous DC movies have had strong distinct scores in marked contrast to the Marvel movies which usually have no constant themes or familiar aspects. WB have really destroyed this movie by allowing Whedon to hire Elfman, who really fails to continue the themes of the previous two. I have no doubt that Junkie XL would have implemented the previous two films themes and added new ones to make this film a perfect trilogy.
I rewatched both Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice and both the scores were perfectly suited to the visuals.
With Justice League, what we got was a clearly outdated feel and lacking the themes from the previous two films. These films have a particular visual style, and Elfman's style just doesn't fit at all, very underwhelming and bordering on campy at times i'm sad to say.
There was none of the Zimmer Man of Steel score pieces, nor was there the Junkie XL Dawn of Justice theme elements.
This felt like a generic and frankly boring score which belongs in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Not to mention that Danny Elfman has shown immense lack of respect and an ego in which he has ruined a structure that was put in place from the first two movies and Wonder Woman. Sure, Zimmer and Junkie XL may not be to the purists taste, but their use of heavy percussion drums and themes work a million times better than what Elfman gave us.
Very sad to see what could have been a great film ruined. The shirt rip at the end was underwhelming beyond belief. Look how using themes already established improves them.
You can see how much the movie improves with even small changes of score.
Wow! Those re-scored clips has made me see the movie in a different light. A Junkie XL score would've resolved the film's many problems and automatically turn it into a good movie. Because obviously Elfman's score was the only problem with Justice League. In fact, Elfman's score ruined the entire movie. It wasn't the film's thin characters, incoherent plot, subpar CGI, shallow villain, contrived humor, the jarring merging of Snyder's and Whedon's styles colliding with one another, etc. End sarcasm.
If anyone hasn't seen the movie, well its a sad case of what could have been.
You can clearly see the Joss Whedon reshot or newly shot scenes as they are nowhere as well made as Zack Snyders, but its the score which really fails in this.
I've always like Danny Elfman's work and he's a perfectly good composer for movies, but its clear his music just doesn't fit this particular vision set forth in the previous two films. He shouldn't have been hired. I struggle to fathom why Junkie XL was fired and Elfman hired.
All the previous DC movies have had strong distinct scores in marked contrast to the Marvel movies which usually have no constant themes or familiar aspects. WB have really destroyed this movie by allowing Whedon to hire Elfman, who really fails to continue the themes of the previous two. I have no doubt that Junkie XL would have implemented the previous two films themes and added new ones to make this film a perfect trilogy.
I rewatched both Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice and both the scores were perfectly suited to the visuals.
With Justice League, what we got was a clearly outdated feel and lacking the themes from the previous two films. These films have a particular visual style, and Elfman's style just doesn't fit at all, very underwhelming and bordering on campy at times i'm sad to say.
There was none of the Zimmer Man of Steel score pieces, nor was there the Junkie XL Dawn of Justice theme elements.
This felt like a generic and frankly boring score which belongs in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Not to mention that Danny Elfman has shown immense lack of respect and an ego in which he has ruined a structure that was put in place from the first two movies and Wonder Woman. Sure, Zimmer and Junkie XL may not be to the purists taste, but their use of heavy percussion drums and themes work a million times better than what Elfman gave us.
Very sad to see what could have been a great film ruined. The shirt rip at the end was underwhelming beyond belief. Look how using themes already established improves them.
You can see how much the movie improves with even small changes of score.
Wow! Those re-scored clips has made me see the movie in a different light. A Junkie XL score would've resolved the film's many problems and automatically turn it into a good movie. Because obviously Elfman's score was the only problem with Justice League. In fact, Elfman's score ruined the entire movie. It wasn't the film's thin characters, incoherent plot, subpar CGI, shallow villain, contrived humor, the jarring merging of Snyder's and Whedon's styles colliding with one another, etc. End sarcasm.
Yes Danny elfmans score deserves an oscar. Best score of the last 20 years. Absolutely remarkable. So original and unique.
The way those unique avengers age of ultron and hulk scores were weaved into the score was nothing short of breathtaking. The cheesiness and campness of the score did match the cheesy script by joss whedon. It was absolutely remarkable.
To see such heroic themes and a happy ending was just the stuff of dreams.
So beautifull. People were crying at the end. Danny. Thank you. End sarcasm.
The last post in this thread could not be the one above mine (which reads like a brain-damaged stream of barely-consciousness, includes three terrible video examples made by some weird Spanish guy with Windows Moviemaker featuring music from two miserable scores they grabbed as torrents), so I've posted this message just to push it's twisted existence into message board oblivion.
That said, I'm a fan of the score and miss the days when FSM meant there were voices and tastemakers behind the name, occasionally dropping in to slap the mental midgets around here by correcting the record and stating they loved a certain score, making everything OK again.
