Leigh Phillips is the "inspiration" behind James recording these Goldsmith scores.
Right. It sounds like part of what makes these financially viable for James is that Leigh is effectively donating his reconstruction fee to Tadlow (and perhaps also providing additional funding for the recording; though that hasn't been made clear beyond his co-producer credit). James recently wrote: "Only a success because of the dedication of Leigh Phillips who reconstructs the music as a true "labour of love"....in other words no dosh passes hands!!!"
Similarly the reconstruction (rather than funding) seems to be the issue with The Chairman, Jeff -- James has said that both he and Luc were keen to do it, but that Fox wouldn't grant them access to the written scores for whatever reason. James has repeatedly cited that lack of cooperation on Fox's part as what has kept the complete recording from happening. There is probably a combination of great added expense and time to do the reconstruction, *plus* the issue that might exist of any cues getting dialed in/out in the film (or known unused cues) which would necessitate access to the original written scores because there is music actually missing in the film itself, meaning nothing to listen to and reconstruct "by ear" for some of Goldsmith's work.
So it's not a matter of "hanging in there" in terms of funding, but rather that James and Luc consider it a "no go" until such time as 20th Century Fox decides to cooperate by granting access to the written music. At least, that's my sense of it and James can certainly correct me on the matter!
Now, also from comments James has made, it sounds like there would be no such issues with accessing the written scores to Black Patch and Face of a Fugitive...and those were both written for pretty small orchestras, hint hint.
I have sadly neglected updating this thread, after the series continued with the wonderful Tadlow Thriller 2 album being released. Didn't that turn out great? "God Grante That She Lye Stille" was a particular highlight for me with a standout gorgeous main theme, and I also heard a cool repeated motif that Jerry later reused in First Knight!
Earlier this year on The Goldsmith Odyssey we had Leigh Phillips on as guest host, and he spoke about his experience working on both Thriller volumes, The Salamander, and other Tadlow projects. He revealed plans to fund a third and final volume of Thriller (there are four remaining unrepresented Goldsmith scores, and he was thinking of adding at least Morton Steven's Pigeons from Hell to them). Check out our conversation if you haven't yet: http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/944720-episode-17-thriller-the-poisoner-1961
I can already say that Goldsmith's first Thriller score "The Cheaters" has some really superb highlights (including another memorable and lovely central theme), and since it didn't make it on either of the first two Thriller volumes I would desperately love for there to be a third! I suspect that the other three unreleased scores would make me feel similarly.
I have modified my initial Wish List, in part to remove the following entry for The Public Eye, since the webmaster of Jerry Goldsmith Online revealed a few months ago that Carol Goldsmith had located the DAT of the original recording which Mike Ross-Trevor had sent Jerry years ago. I had written:
"3. The Public Eye -- Mike Ross-Trevor who participated with Goldsmith on the recording of this other rejected score has claimed that it was in a "dark Chinatown" vein. Sadly the whereabouts of the original recording are unknown, but Scott Bettencourt in the above Film Score Friday column revealed that this score also exists in written form in the Jerry Goldsmith Music Sketches of the Margaret Herrick Library."
No need for this to be re-recorded if the original recording made in the 90s will be getting released at some point in the next few years! I also deleted the old mention of Barnaby Jones (mentioned with The Waltons) at the end, since LLL has just premiered Goldsmith's full original recording!
I think I've figured out what I want most to replace The Public Eye and High Velocity (which I also removed after confirming that the complete score -- though I love it! -- in the film features less than two minutes of unreleased music, all low-key suspense stuff which would not justify a complete re-recording over other worthy scores).
Stumbled across this old thread of mine and couldn't help bumping it. The Tadlow/Prometheus Goldsmith series appears to have ended, aside from the tantalizing prospect of a third volume of Thriller, which Leigh Phillips spoke about more in a recent conversation (it has been delayed by the pandemic and he doesn't know how soon it might happen, though he's picked all of the scores being represented including three by Morton Stevens, and specific cues for the suites): https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/8425660-odyssey-interviews-leigh-phillips
But the real reason I'm bumping this is because I was struck by the fact that just in the past several months, Intrada has given us the original recordings of not only The Public Eye, but also Face of a Fugitive and Shamus! All three of these were high on people's wish lists (including mine), and they all feel like absolute miracles. Who knows what else might yet to be uncovered in the vaults?
Yes... But to be honest Id like to see BAMBI. This is a masterpiece in my opinion....and " Raindrops " is as close as you can get to LEGEND...to have somekind of a connection to your post
Yes you are right indeed Yavar...and I would love to get the rest of my Goldsmiths... I didnt understand the post as pure premiere cause you mentioned CHAIRMAN..UNDER FIRE ETC.. And the originalrecordings for BAMBI..and all the rest like PETER PAN etc.yes they do exist...but not in crisp super stereo. I just think of TARAS BULBA...what an improvement of this milestone score compared to the Mono LP. So BAMBI is top on my list of rerecordings...followed by a premiere...and thats Alwyns CRIMSON PIRATE. But you are right this post is about Jerry...so happy with every unreleased score theres left by him.
Yes you are right indeed Yavar...and I would love to get the rest of my Goldsmiths... I didnt understand the post as pure premiere cause you mentioned CHAIRMAN..UNDER FIRE ETC..
You're correct that this thread isn't just about pure premieres; there are a lot of Goldsmith scores like The Chairman and Under Fire which have had releases but the complete film recordings are lost so they would still require a rerecording to be released in complete form. Those are fair game in this thread -- I was only tweaking *you* my friend because I thought you cared about things that had never been released above expansions or anything else.
And the originalrecordings for BAMBI..and all the rest like PETER PAN etc.yes they do exist...but not in crisp super stereo.
Fair enough.
I just think of TARAS BULBA...what an improvement of this milestone score compared to the Mono LP. So BAMBI is top on my list of rerecordings...followed by a premiere...and thats Alwyns CRIMSON PIRATE. But you are right this post is about Jerry...so happy with every unreleased score theres left by him.
I adore William Alwyn, both his concert music output and his film music output. Crimson Pirate is so good and all we have is a rerecorded suite from it. Would love to have more of it but my #1 Alwyn want is actually Disney's Swiss Family Robinson. I hope Intrada can find that in the Disney vaults and release it some day! It could make a great pairing with In Search of the Castaways, another Disney film score of his....
By the way, did you know that William Alwyn's wife was not only a great composer for the concert hall herself, but also a film composer? I can't think of any other examples in history of a married couple both of whom composed film scores, but maybe I'm forgetting someone. Many people forget this example because she isn't on album as "Mary Alwyn" (which she was also known as) but Doreen Carwithen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doreen_Carwithen
THE MAN 1971 James Earl Jones TV movie directed by Joseph Sargent. I would buy this in the very second of its announcement. That's now my most desired unreleased Goldsmith score. A Nic Raine conducted recording would be a dream come true if original master tapes should ever be lost forever. As this is a short score, pairing it with PURSUIT 1972 Ben Gazzara TV movie directed by Michael Crichton would be perfect. And, indeed, INDICT AND CONVICT to close the Prague rerecording job.... What a terrific 70ies album it would be...
Theirry, I love your idea for a Goldsmith 70s TV feature threefer of all premieres! I like all of those scores very much (though not as much as CRAWLSPACE in the same era) and I'm sure they would fit comfortably on one CD together. I even wrote thorough breakdowns and "Advance Liner Notes" for the first two! (I'll probably get around to doing Indict and Convict eventually, but I only got a copy of it after my friends and I started The Goldsmith Odyssey podcast and I lost the free time I would have spent on such pursuits.)
That's only 35 minutes, assuming there aren't written but unused cues or something. That would leave over half a CD's space for Indict and Convict, and I kinda suspect it's a short score as well. If it's not much longer than Pursuit, maybe there would be enough room on the same disc for my favorite unreleased Goldsmith TV movie score, Crawlspace (22 minutes): https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116952&forumID=1&archive=0
Just imagine -- a packed 70s Goldsmith re-recordings disc, with FOUR complete total premieres.
The interesting thing about The Satan Bug is the cues that feature the hard-to-reproduce electronics are already quite well-represented on the FSM album, and in great sound. The big orchestral showpieces in the score don't really feature electronics at the forefront and I'd love to see someone take a crack at rerecording them--along with The Chairman (which certainly sounds like James has on his list) and some of the others listed here.
I also agree it's VERY difficult to reproduce the original performances, something even Goldsmith was hard pressed to do. You have to expect that there's some room for interpretation here, and it's possible to be surprised--the recent rerecordings of Lawrence of Arabia, Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and Conan the Barbarian have been superb IMO so it's always possible to hit it out of the park. But in general, the original film recordings are great because they HAD to be great--they had to function within the film exactly, and the studio would pay for just as many takes as needed to get that performance, whereas on a rerecording project, at some point you're going to run out of time and/or money. I'm very excited about the Goldsmith project though--long overdue!
Jeff, I have to disagree a bit with your statements...
While major studios as rule did give the composers a decent music budget and time to record scores as rule, sometimes the budgets cause some folks to have to record a lot of music in a very short amount of time and some goofs and mistakens were covered by Dialogue and sound effects.
In the case of Independent productions and some interestional ones, comoposers were had to record with with Orchestras and in studios that weren't quite up to the level of say 20th Century Fox.
In the case of CONAN THE DESTROYER, Basil HATED and I mean HEATED the recording he got from the Italian Orchestra which was full of mistakes,poor performances,etc
THE GOLDEN VOYAGE OF SINBAD's orchestra sounds like a high school marching band on a bad day..
HOOISER's performances are more then a bit shakey...
I could go on.
The myth that the soundtrack recording is the best is just that a myth, A good chuck are very good, but there are a number of scores that would greatly benefit from a new recording
Which raises the time honored question:
What's more important?
The soundtrack recording or the music itself?
Good case in point, CONAN THE BARBARIAN
The PROMETHUS/TADLOW recording reflects what Basil Wrote and wanted the music to be.
The INTRADA CD is what he able to get from the orchestra and choir for the film.
Two Different animals, both are valid in my opinion.
Ford A. Thaxton
THE GOLDEN VOYAGE OF SINBAD's orchestra sounds like a high school marching band on a bad day..
In defence of this performance: The above comment may well be be true - however the performance does give the score its mystical eerie ambience which suits the film very well
the performance does give the score its mystical eerie ambience which suits the film very well
How exactly can anything benefit from being very poorly performed? That is it covered by SFX and dialogues in the film itself isn't entirely as painful as listening to it on its own. Unless you are just half-deaf and can't hear it.
I'm thinking maybe I should modify this thread title in light of Intrada's fantastic newly recorded album of BLACK PATCH (1957) and THE MAN (1972), to be "Wish List: New Goldsmith Recordings!"
What do you guys think? Should I start a new thread, or keep this one because there's a lot of history here, and just modify that title and edit my first post a bit to make the subject more general?
And finally, the raw Zoom video of the same conversation, without all the nice fancy editing and music samples...but if anyone's curious to see our faces, here you go:
THE MAN 1971 James Earl Jones TV movie directed by Joseph Sargent. This the last unreleased patriotic/militaristic score by Goldsmith (except a complete McARTHUR everybody is crying for) This is nearly PATTON 2. Also forecast THWILGHT'S LAST GLEAMING. I would buy this in the very second of its announcement. That's now my most desired unreleased Goldsmith score. A Nic Raine conducted recording would be a dream come true if original master tapes should ever be lost forever.
So happy you got your wish, Thierry! (Not complete with the other Goldsmith 70s TV movie scores, but I'd say Black Patch is a fantastic substitute, wouldn't you?)
I must correct you on one thing -- this is NOT "the last unreleased patriotic/militaristic score by Goldsmith"!
For that we must venture into the late 1950s, and discover first a TRIO of Civil War scores by the maestro: Climax! "The Trial of Captain Wirz" (aired 6/27/57) TV Guide Synopsis: "During the Civil War, thousands of captured Union soldiers were confined in the Andersonville stockade in Georgia. Conditions there were so bad that over 12,000 prisoners died and the infamous reputation of the Andersonville stockade spread. When the war ended, steps were taken to bring to justice those responsible. Tonight's 60-minute drama re-creates the trial of Captain Henry Wirz, commandant of the Andersonville prison." https://search.library.ucla.edu/permalink/01UCS_LAL/1hnia1h/alma99161393506533
Playhouse 90 "The Day Before Atlanta" (aired 4/9/59) Synopsis (SPOILERS): "Set during the Civil War shortly before the Union army captures Atlanta in 1864. The Union scouting party, headed by Sergeant Jubal Banks, discovers a plantation that is guarded by a man and his teenage son. Both are killed as they attempt to defend themselves, leading to dissension within the ranks. Doug Hooker, a young recruit, finds a woman from the neighborhood, Carolyn Claybourne, hiding upstairs. They develop a friendship and bemoan the cruelty of war. Doug promises to help her escape from the house before his unit sets fire to it, but the soldiers discover Carolyn before he can do so. And upon seeing Sgt. Jubal threaten her, Doug shoots and kills him. Fearing a court martial for killing their commander, the soldiers flee and then walk right into a Confederate ambush headed by Carolyn's father. While they are held captive, Carolyn pleads with her father for their release, leading to disastrous results." https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=T85:0393
For this last Civil War score, composer and Goldsmith fan Gaetano Malaponti created a MIDI reconstruction of about half the cues. There's some excellent action music which looks forward to later Goldsmith, and militaristic brass writing (including bugle!)
I haven't heard the other two scores yet, or been able to see any of these three programs. But at least we know they survive, and I think together they could make a really cool "Jerry Goldsmith: The Civil War Scores" CD!
I assure you there are many more gems to mine, and his scores for Playhouse 90 in particular are feature-length! There are probably even more that I haven't yet been able to find in my research. I only recently discovered "The Day Before Atlanta" a few days ago...
