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 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 7:48 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Yes, Jerry Goldsmith is the best movie music composer of all times!

One does not need to have superior intellect such as YOR to know that.

Nevertheless, he composed some scores that were not good at all (to his standards, of course) and even harmed the movies.

What is his worst score in YOR's humble opinion?

It is tough to pick one because there are several not-so-good Goldsmith scores for movies that YOR has never seen in his life, like "Inchon", "McCarthur", "Seven Days in May", "Stagecoach", "Criminal Law", etc.

So, a really not-so-good score by Goldsmith that, in YOR's opinion, did not help the movie is... "I.Q."

So, what is your's?



 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 8:00 PM   
 By:   Marlene   (Member)

I myself loved I.Q. very much. But I can understand why it might not be a favourite.

The one Goldsmith I don´t like is 'Ghost And The Darkness'. I think that it works ok on CD but not very well in the movie. I felt it didn´t help the movie, in some cases it even destroyed any atmosphere it was trying to achieve. One example popping into my head right now: encountering the (musical) Borg during the cave scene. I sold the CD several years ago and never regretted it.

Another score not always great for the movie: 'Chain Reaction'. I love it on CD but in the movie constant exposure to the synthesized guitar for Keanu Reeves' character gets unnerving after some time.

'Omen III' is problematic on occasion. While I think that it´s one of the best scores ever written when listened on its own I have the impression that it´s much too "big" for this "small" movie. Talk about overachieving.

'Supergirl' is difficult too. The synths sound cheesy and in some cases come across as a sound effect... this always irritates me. Otherwise however I like it on its own and in the movie as well.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 8:25 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

I also love I Q , a cute little movie.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 8:48 PM   
 By:   gren99   (Member)

watch S*P*I*E*S. i'm pretty unabashed in my liking this trainwreck of a score, but others might (and frankly, should) differ. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 9:10 PM   
 By:   barryfan   (Member)

Supergirl gives me a headache. Really.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 9:20 PM   
 By:   Lokutus   (Member)

US Marshalls
Chain Reaction
Warlock
Criminal Law

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 9:31 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

Extreme Prejudice...80's "synth fart" Goldsmith at its worst.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 10:02 PM   
 By:   RM Eastman   (Member)




NONE!

Goldsmith is the King in more ways than one.....

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 10:28 PM   
 By:   Steve H   (Member)

Extreme Prejudice...80's "synth fart" Goldsmith at its worst.

I'll remember this comment when one of the tracks turn up in a future Tarantino film. big grin

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 11:10 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

It is tough to pick one because there are several not-so-good Goldsmith scores for movies that YOR has never seen in his life, like "Inchon", "McCarthur", "Seven Days in May", "Stagecoach", "Criminal Law", etc.



"Inchon". "MacArthur", and "Stagecoach" are indeed not-so-good films ("Inchon" falls into dreadful territory), but the Goldsmith scores are far from poor, they are excellent. "Seven Days in May" is a great film with a masterpiece, if sparse. score. "Criminal Law" is indeed one of Goldsmith's worst. Totally uninspired and boring.

Most annoying Goldsmith scores for me are "Mr. Baseball" and "Dennis the Menace". I always thought Goldsmith tried too hard with comedies, but sometimes he did it just right...like "The 'Burbs" or "Gremlins"

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 11:28 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

OK, Let's forget for the rest of this thread how the score sounds on CD APART from film it was composed for.

What score of Mr. Goldsmith's do you THINK didn't work in the film it was written for instead.

I will flat out say that the scores to CRIMINAL LAW and MR. BASEBALL work great for the these films and add much to them (I know I saw both of them).

If you want to go on how you hate the Synth scores he did in the late 80's and 90's, go ahead.

But can any of you point to a score that he did that just didn't work in the film it was commissioned for?

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 12:07 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

I think "Link" is Goldsmith's worst. Hearing it has the same sad effect on me as seeing Charlton Heston at his lowest ebb in offal like "The Last Hard Men".

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 12:21 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Funny how Yor the troll has to counter his piss fest thread about Zimmer with a Goldsmith one to come off as neutral; Sad part is that Yor's world only features Goldsmith and Zimmer, I've rarely seen him discuss anything else. But I guess it's what gets the most attention and conflict around here right?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 12:33 AM   
 By:   DavidCorkum   (Member)

But can any of you point to a score that he did that just didn't work in the film it was commissioned for?

Ford A. Thaxton


There are a number of later Goldsmith scores that I found a little dull on CD, but when I eventually saw the film and came to understand how the music was used, I couldn't really criticize them. Goldsmith was always very consistent in his ability to write music that reflected the personality of the films he was scoring, even if his creativity got lazier towards his later years. His sense of drama never faltered, only his energy.

That said, I have to admit that I cringe occasional watching Damian Omen II. The same style of music that's so classy and creepy in the other two Omens here tends to sound overdone and corny to me, making an already silly and campy film more so. I do like the raven effect, and "Runaway Train" is seriously great. But other parts really don't work. The choir gets too in-your-face in several scenes, seemingly mocking the drama, rather than enhancing it. It's difficult to decide whether I think Goldsmith should have approached it differently, or if he was just doing his usual job giving the movie the music that reflected it's personality. I'm probably in the minority on this one.

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 1:04 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Different answers:

1. Worst "typical" Goldsmith score: Rent-a-Cop
(Runners-up include Bad Girls, Warlock, The River Wild)

2. Worst electronic/predominantly electronic Goldsmith score: Criminal Law
(Runners-up: Gladiator (Unused), Alien Nation)

3. Worst uncharacteristic (i.e. pop, jazz, etc) Goldsmith score: Mr. Baseball
(Runners-Up: Fierce Creatures, The Lonely Guy)

All three films are garbage, too.

Ford, that a score works (to a greater or lesser extent) in the movie doesn't mean it's good music. John Carpenter's "scores" work in films like Halloween and The Fog, yet they are lousy music, if they're music at all!

Perceptions on film or music score can change sometimes, not so much after watching the movie, but e.g. after listening to an audio commentary or watching a making-of. A featurette on the music of "The River Wild" had that effect on me. As I was watching Goldsmith toiling away, his thoughts on the film and the music, the recording sessions - all that made be think: Well, maybe it's not so bad after all. Then I listened to the album again: Naahhh, still terrible.

And yes, that score works rather well in the film (and it's not a bad film either).

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 1:47 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I'm not going to use the word 'worst' because in all honesty I don't think I'm qualified to judge that.

I can say that my least favourite ones are the ones OnlyGoodMusic has listed above. Dear me, we have something in common! ;-)

I personally don't enjoy that 80s period of synth-dom scores he went through. Others I don't enjoy include EXTREME PREJUDICE and WARLOCK.

All that said ... I am strangely attracted to ALIEN NATION. So there are exceptions to every generalization.

But, y'know what, the fact JG has periods and styles in his music I don't like is partly a compliment in disguise, because it shows how experimental and inventive he was.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 2:16 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

Funny how Yor the troll has to counter his piss fest thread about Zimmer with a Goldsmith one to come off as neutral; Sad part is that Yor's world only features Goldsmith and Zimmer, I've rarely seen him discuss anything else. But I guess it's what gets the most attention and conflict around here right?

Seems to be. Coming soon to a message board near you...'Worst Barry Score', 'Worst Morricone Score', 'Worst Williams Score' etc. The possibilities are endless. All complete with silly GIF images.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 2:17 AM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

Ford, that a score works (to a greater or lesser extent) in the movie doesn't mean it's good music.

That's the real point.

These scores were written to work within the film they were composed for...

That was the single most important factor in Jerry Goldsmith's or any other film composer mind when writing it.

The fact that it gets released on a CD after the fact just as a rule doesn't enter into the discussion as a rule.

Goldsmith often thought that fairly short CDS with very selected cues was the best way to present his music on these releases and not in show order either as rule.

He wasn't a fan of putting every last note out.

So far no one can point to a film he scored that he did a "Bad Job" on, only how they didn't like the work APART from the film on CD.

Most of the comments I've read are highly subjective and IMHO most inane.

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 3:18 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I think it's a very good point that all his scores were apt for the films, even if we didn't like them as pure music.

This is why I personally elected to not pretend I could judge 'good' or 'bad' but merely comment on what I enjoy and what I don't.

I wouldn't argue against that, say, EXTREME PREJUDICE, is an apt score for the film and works in supplying the musical needs of the film. But I can say I enjoyed it neither as an experience of music nor as an experience of film viewing.

(Of course, in the latter case, my reaction to film itself is necessarily part of one's response.)

It's perhaps worth us all remembering the distinction between enjoy-or-not, good-or-not and right-or-not.

It works the other way too, by the way. I'm well aware that some of the music I enjoy is not especially critically laudible.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Sep 4, 2013 - 3:24 AM   
 By:   Tester   (Member)

As a separate listen from the movies, I don't like Alien Nation and Runaway because of the heavy synth use (I like hoosiers however). Also, I can't stand Fierce Creatures, I find it incredibly boring.

 
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