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 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 10:05 AM   
 By:   ScottyM   (Member)

Sounds like because you mostly agreed with his personal opinions, you have less of a problem with the book.

I also read it before I saw every episode. So, I didn't come into it as a fan who has watched the series over the decades. I was 13ish when I got the first edition. I'm sure that has something to do with it. Or, I just don't have a problem with opinions about episodes. I have a bigger problem with bad research and falsehoods being presented as fact.

Btw, I clearly wrote that Zicree was seemingly annoyed (never said critical) with Matheson's names.

That's kind of splitting hairs. A statement based on annoyance is pretty much a criticism. But you can't read tone of voice through cold prose, unless the punctuation makes it obvious.

You can say he's just pointing out a pattern,

Because that's exactly what he is doing. I have the book in front of me, I can verify that he isn't expressing annoyance. He was just pointing it out. Without going through every episode written by Matheson, just by my own memory - having read it more than once - he does not keep mentioning Tina. But if I have the time, I'll take a look.

Maybe it's in the "Little Girl Lost" review he says parenthetically "there's that name Tina again."
I've only read the book once and have no need to re-read it, but if I did, maybe I'd grow to ignore his negative opinions, and take his negative factual criticisms at face value.


Nope, not at all in "Little Girl Lost." It was Serling's re-use of a name that is pointed out, as I clearly stated. Nan for his daughter Anne. "Again that name!" was how he put it. Can I say for sure he wasn't annoyed? No, but it reads more like "again he used that name which annoyed his daughter." It seemed more like amusement.

If you run into a copy, page through it again. You might like it more. Or hate it more, for that matter. big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 10:47 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Btw, I clearly wrote that Zicree was seemingly annoyed (never said critical) with Matheson's names.

That's kind of splitting hairs. A statement based on annoyance is pretty much a criticism. But you can't read tone of voice through cold prose, unless the punctuation makes it obvious


Not in this context. Annoyance is a feeling, and isnt a convincing point or fact-based argument in itself. And the names thing wasnt a significant enough of a pattern that a critic should really care about.
That said, I downloaded a pdf of the book and didnt see anything about Matheson in the "Little girl lost" episode review. While it could be elsewhere in the book, I see you quoted Zicree's reaction about Serling's reuse of "Anne" - that's familiar, so I might be conflating two different comments in the book. Regardless, I appreciate you tracking that down (although that comment reads like annoyance, to me).

 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 11:19 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

New question: There were some "lost episodes" of TZ that were not originally syndicated. They're all in the BD box, right? I'm sure it's yes. I know one of them was "Miniature" with Robert Duvall, which was finally run in 1984. And there were at least five others.

I think all vhs/dvd/bluray releases have included all the episodes. "Lost episodes" was just a marketing gimmick for a separate sale.



Actually the episode with George Takei as a Japanese American in conflict with a WWII veteran was "lost". IIRC it never aired or only once and never in syndication
b

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 2:47 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

New question: There were some "lost episodes" of TZ that were not originally syndicated. They're all in the BD box, right? I'm sure it's yes. I know one of them was "Miniature" with Robert Duvall, which was finally run in 1984. And there were at least five others.

I think all vhs/dvd/bluray releases have included all the episodes. "Lost episodes" was just a marketing gimmick for a separate sale.



Actually the episode with George Takei as a Japanese American in conflict with a WWII veteran was "lost". IIRC it never aired or only once and never in syndication
b


Wish you had removed my post from your reply. I thought you were saying that episode "The Encounter" wasnt on home video (when it was).
If you really want to list the 5 non-syndicated titles, they're noted on the wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twilight_Zone_%281959_TV_series%29

"Sounds and Silences", "Miniature", "A Short Drink From a Certain Fountain" were involved in plagiarism lawsuits.
"An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" (a French short film, aired twice per agreement with the filmmakers) and "The Encounter" (which was pulled after its initial showing)

 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 6:07 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

I'm glad all five un-syndicated episodes are on the discs. smile


"The Twilight Zone" Blu-ray set is currently only $64.99 at Amazon, though I just ordered a used copy for $55. So, I can now say I have it -- though like ST: TOS, I probably won't really watch much of it (the special features are intriguing, though), but it's nice to know it's "on the shelf."


They knocked $5 off, two days after I ordered it? That sucks. But I'm still eager to see it show up, and likewise my used copy of the 1st edition Companion from eBay.

Wikipedia states that the second edition just adds a chapter about the 1985 revival series, and apparently that's the only change.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 6:33 PM   
 By:   cinemel1   (Member)

I bought both the Twilight Zone Companion & the blu-ray complete Zone. I spent the winter watching the set pretty much in order with book at my side. I was a bit surprised at the negative comments of some episodes. However in the more current commentaries on the discs by the book's author he has re-evaluated some of the negative comments. I followed the viewing of the episodes with listening to many of the commentaries. Zicree's knowledge is formidable. The picture quality is amazing. Interesting how these we're mostly filmed on the MGM backlot. Zicree also explained how 6 episodes were produced on videotape to save money. The picture quality of those are noticeably inferior. Also how the 4th season hour episodes were not as successful since they were often padded to fill out the 60 minutes. Wonderful casts with actors who were not yet stars. And of course, isolated scores on most episodes.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 7:19 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

There was also "The Twilight Zone Faq" that slams the music, saying since it was recorded in France, that it "conjures nothing but bad memories". Why?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2017 - 10:41 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Re France, are you referring to Nathan Van Cleave's I Sing the Body Electric? It is the only score I've ever heard of with a France factor of some kind.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 3:07 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Back in the eighties I poured over this book. This was when the BBC here in the UK were running the series, and I found it invaluable reading along with the episodes I watched. Didn't find in the least annoying, but very informative, and knew it was setting the standard for future companion books on tv shows. And it's still one of those volumes I'll return to once in a while to look something up.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 5:02 AM   
 By:   dbrooks   (Member)

I love this show and I saw this topic so I have to throw in my two cents. I bought this book last year, the second edition. It does NOT have any missing pages. As a TZ fan I think it is a nice addition to own. It is like a very beefy episode guide. Plus around $10, why not?

Second the Blu-ray set is worth the purchase. The only missing features from the Definitive Edition DVD set are, a PDF script, a segment of Rod Serling on the Jack Benney Show, a VERY small 30 sec Drew Carey clip, the color segments of "Miniature" from the Silver Anniversary show. I really wish they included this on the BD set. But the most missing piece is the American Masterpiece Rod Serling documentary which is a great addition. But you can buy this cheap and add it on.

With that said, the Blu-ray set is the best purchase because it includes so much more even without these smaller features.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 6:37 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

After I finally ordered the show on Blu-ray, I ordered the companion too, which I've never owned. This thread sold me on it -- and it was only $11.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 7:48 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

I love this show and I saw this topic so I have to throw in my two cents. I bought this book last year, the second edition. It does NOT have any missing pages. As a TZ fan I think it is a nice addition to own. It is like a very beefy episode guide. Plus around $10, why not?

Second the Blu-ray set is worth the purchase. The only missing features from the Definitive Edition DVD set are, a PDF script, a segment of Rod Serling on the Jack Benney Show, a VERY small 30 sec Drew Carey clip, the color segments of "Miniature" from the Silver Anniversary show. I really wish they included this on the BD set. But the most missing piece is the American Masterpiece Rod Serling documentary which is a great addition. But you can buy this cheap and add it on.

With that said, the Blu-ray set is the best purchase because it includes so much more even without these smaller features.



Whoa, it sounds like there's a lot missing. Does the Definitive DVD box contain everything in the Blu-ray set, plus the kitchen sink? Or does the Blu have its own exclusives?

I would have liked those colorized segments in "Miniature." The only time I ever saw that episode was the 1984 special airing, so that's my memory of it.

I'm still waiting for my Blu-ray set to show up, and the COMPANION I bought on eBay will take even longer.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 8:49 AM   
 By:   dbrooks   (Member)

The Blu-Ray set includes everything else from the Definitive set. But it also includes the Time Element and a few episodes of Tales of Tomorrow. Also more Radio Dramas, documentaries and commentaries are included. The only thing I missed was the documentary. Like I said, just buy it separately for under $10. Also I don't think the few comic PDFs are on the Blu-Ray set either? But without this, everything that they didn't include is small, or you can watch on YouTube. I would of loved the colorized "Miniature" segments and don't know why they didn't include them? But when you watch them once it is nothing missed.

Also the TZ comics that were included, you can buy them all on a DVD for a cheap price.

Again, I sold my Definitive set and I am much happier with the Blu-Ray edition. Whatever was lost they made up for adding more material.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 9:57 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

My old copy of 2nd Edition with the Schumer cover has page 41 intact. Not sure what happened to that guy's copy.

As for the book itself...well it was originally written in 1982 long before internet forums were even a glint in their mother's eyes and you couldn't debate the merits of every episode adnaseum. So basically Zicree's opinions were the rule of law for tons of episodes (in many cases, such as several season 4 shows, they still are) at the time. And since it was so early, Zicree pretty much set the standard for all so-called "Opinionated Episode Guides" with it. The important part being that first word, opinionated. Maybe 4-5 times out of 10, you wont agree with him and that's perfectly fine. If you want a more "well so-and-so on TZCafe says this is what REALLY happened..." approach to the series, go read Grams' far more comprehensive (and also far more dull) book. Otherwise this is ok even if it's got some major errors and has really, really, REALLY needed a 3rd edition since 2003.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

My old copy of 2nd Edition with the Schumer cover has page 41 intact. Not sure what happened to that guy's copy.

I got my second edition copy (paperback) arrived from Amazon this morning. First thing I did was check if there was a page 41.

There is.

As for the book itself...well it was originally written in 1982 long before internet forums were even a glint in their mother's eyes

I haven't read any of it since I used to pick it up at the bookstore and just read a few passages. The last time I can recall doing this was maybe in the late eighties?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 11:09 AM   
 By:   dbrooks   (Member)

I agree with Gram's TZ book. It is full of information about the production and direction of the series itself, it can be a little exhaustive and dull at times. I bought it on my Kindle years ago (a lot cheaper) and have not finished it yet. I think the Companion is more of a fun read.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 12:00 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Y'all make me want to pull out my copy for a full re-reading. TZ like ST is so thoroughly a part of my television viewing being.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 1:30 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

Message deleted.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 1:30 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

Another thing to consider is that the Zicree and Grams book often diverge wildly on certain characterizations of staff members. No doubt the result of Zicree doing actual voice interviews with the then-living staff (he saved a lot of these recordings and they appear on the dvds and blu-rays as audio commentaries) who were more willing to paint a rosier picture vs. Grams relying entirely on the actual production documents that Zicree did not have 100% access to at the time. Most notable example of this is how Herbert Herschman comes off as the second best producer theyever had in Zicree and a grumpy demanding control freak Serling could wait to see fired in Grams.


Actually the episode with George Takei as a Japanese American in conflict with a WWII veteran was "lost". IIRC it never aired or only once and never in syndication


Just for the record, The Encounter was finally added to Syfy's rerun package last year. Of the "lost five", it was the only one banned for content.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2017 - 11:50 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

The Blu-Ray set includes everything else from the Definitive set. But it also includes the Time Element and a few episodes of Tales of Tomorrow. Also more Radio Dramas, documentaries and commentaries are included. The only thing I missed was the documentary. Like I said, just buy it separately for under $10. Also I don't think the few comic PDFs are on the Blu-Ray set either? But without this, everything that they didn't include is small, or you can watch on YouTube. I would of loved the colorized "Miniature" segments and don't know why they didn't include them? But when you watch them once it is nothing missed.

Also the TZ comics that were included, you can buy them all on a DVD for a cheap price.

Again, I sold my Definitive set and I am much happier with the Blu-Ray edition. Whatever was lost they made up for adding more material.



Thank you, dbrooks, for comparing the Definitive features to the Blu-ray. All that info is going right in my TZ notes.

Also thanks to RoryR, LordDalek, and dbrooks for confirming that the COMPANION 2nd ed. is NOT defective. It seems I was steered wrong by one faulty Amazon review, leading me to order a used copy of the 1st edition whose condition I don't know yet. I should have ordered a new copy of the 2nd edition for less money.

That said, I'm still eager to see the Blu-ray and book show up.

 
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