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 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 3:34 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I don't expect anybody to agree with me on that, so what are yours?

Looks like you and I are the "alone" ones with our respective likes around here. Everyone else is falling all over one another like touchy-feeley winos in agreement! Feeling exclusive yet, Graham?

NP: "Going to San Diego" Allen Ginsberg, David Amram, and Bob Dylan

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 4:41 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Not sure I'm alone in this, given that this forum is essentially a science fiction forum first and a film score forum second...but I love Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Unconditionally. I adored the film when I saw it in '89 and I adore it today. There is nothing wrong with that film. At all. Nothing.



Jim I really enjoy V as well, i think i saw it 6 or 7 times when it came out. It could be said that the effects are not too good, but I think that this was a rare case when simpler effects were actually a good thing, the effects carried on that throwback to the series effect of the whole movie. It is remarkably good for a 'bad' film.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 5:34 AM   
 By:   ScottDS   (Member)

-I won't call Star Trek V underrated, but I've always enjoyed it. The film wears its heart on its sleeve, and I love it for that. (The score is nice, too.) smile

-And having said that, the first Trek film has aged like a fine wine (Bones' disco-era civvies notwithstanding!)

-I love Eyes Wide Shut... one of those movies that casts a spell over you.

-Executive Decision is superior to Air Force One.

-I enjoy Raiders, Doom, and Last Crusade equally.

-I also enjoy the first three Die Hards equally, though the first film deserves a place in history for establishing the template. ("Die Hard in a ___")

-The Postman was good, but I can see why people would call it self-indulgent.

 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 7:13 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Not sure I'm alone in this, given that this forum is essentially a science fiction forum first and a film score forum second...but I love Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Unconditionally. I adored the film when I saw it in '89 and I adore it today. There is nothing wrong with that film. At all. Nothing.



Jim I really enjoy V as well, i think i saw it 6 or 7 times when it came out. It could be said that the effects are not too good, but I think that this was a rare case when simpler effects were actually a good thing, the effects carried on that throwback to the series effect of the whole movie. It is remarkably good for a 'bad' film.


I believe the effects company were rushed so it's not all their fault. Also this film has one of my favorite effects shots of all the films. The Enterprise in front of the Moon! Why no one has ever done that before is beyond me. There was a lot of dumbing down as well. The guy in charge of the special effects had a lot of great ideas that were shot down. Oh, and add me as one that enjoys this film!

 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 7:20 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

I love Eyes Wide Shut... one of those movies that casts a spell over you.

I wasn't that keen on it, to be honest. I just found it exceptionally dull. However, I don't think I've seen anyone look as attractive and sexy in a film as much as Kidman does in that one. Yum!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 7:20 AM   
 By:   ScottDS   (Member)

I believe the effects company were rushed so it's not all their fault. Also this film has one of my favorite effects shots of all the films. The Enterprise in front of the Moon! Why no one has ever done that before is beyond me. There was a lot of dumbing down as well. The guy in charge of the special effects had a lot of great ideas that were shot down. Oh, and add me as one that enjoys this film!


It's not even that they had a lot of great ideas that were shot down; the FX company just wasn't that experienced with motion control photography.

On the plus side (though it's a small plus), they wanted to avoid bluescreen work so a lot of the shots where you see through the ship's windows were done with rear projection, which allowed Shatner to actually movie the camera.

And yeah, the shot of the Enterprise in front of the moon... good stuff! I even like the shuttlebay crash even though the scale is a bit off. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 7:50 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I believe the effects company were rushed so it's not all their fault. Also this film has one of my favorite effects shots of all the films. The Enterprise in front of the Moon! Why no one has ever done that before is beyond me. There was a lot of dumbing down as well. The guy in charge of the special effects had a lot of great ideas that were shot down. Oh, and add me as one that enjoys this film!


It's not even that they had a lot of great ideas that were shot down; the FX company just wasn't that experienced with motion control photography.

On the plus side (though it's a small plus), they wanted to avoid bluescreen work so a lot of the shots where you see through the ship's windows were done with rear projection, which allowed Shatner to actually movie the camera.

And yeah, the shot of the Enterprise in front of the moon... good stuff! I even like the shuttlebay crash even though the scale is a bit off. smile


Yeah, it was Bran Ferren, a really smart guy, but not up to ILM standards, he previously did Altered States, which was rather more bizarre and forgiving. I am pretty sure ST V was his last effects project for Hollywood, or Second Sight - which no one has seen.

 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 7:52 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I believe the effects company were rushed so it's not all their fault. Also this film has one of my favorite effects shots of all the films. The Enterprise in front of the Moon! Why no one has ever done that before is beyond me. There was a lot of dumbing down as well. The guy in charge of the special effects had a lot of great ideas that were shot down. Oh, and add me as one that enjoys this film!


It's not even that they had a lot of great ideas that were shot down; the FX company just wasn't that experienced with motion control photography.

On the plus side (though it's a small plus), they wanted to avoid bluescreen work so a lot of the shots where you see through the ship's windows were done with rear projection, which allowed Shatner to actually movie the camera.

And yeah, the shot of the Enterprise in front of the moon... good stuff! I even like the shuttlebay crash even though the scale is a bit off. smile


Yeah, it was Bran Ferren, a really smart guy, but not up to ILM standards, he previously did Altered States, which was rather more bizarre and forgiving. I am pretty sure ST V was his last effects project for Hollywood, or Second Sight - which no one has seen.


Interesting, I remember a lot of bad matte lines in Altered States. Though his creativity was top notch.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 7:55 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Yeah, just look at his wikipedia info, he has done some pretty interesting things outside of movies. Sounds pretty genius level, just not the best special effects artist for a Star Trek movie.

ILM spoiled us forever.

 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 8:03 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

I also love Star Trek V, but I have to say that I do in spite of there being a ton of things wrong with it. But it's still fun, has a lot of heart, and I like it more than IV. But then again, I love them all.

Where I really feel alone is the 1998 Lost in Space. I grew up with the TV series and really looked forward to the movie. LOVED IT! It had good (and bad) acting, amazing effects, great music and a plot with goofy monsters that made no sense. JUST LIKE THE TV SERIES. When the box office proved so strong that it toppled Titanic from the top spot, I was thrilled. A new sci-fi franchise!

Not.

Everyone else hated it. LiS fans, movie fans, kids, critics, everyone! After that boffo opening weekend, the movie plummeted like the Jupiter 2 without deutronium. To this day, LiS fans loathe the film. Me? I still love it. At least the people I saw it with dug it, too, so that's four of us.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 8:21 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I also love Star Trek V, but I have to say that I do in spite of there being a ton of things wrong with it. But it's still fun, has a lot of heart, and I like it more than IV. But then again, I love them all.

Where I really feel alone is the 1998 Lost in Space. I grew up with the TV series and really looked forward to the movie. LOVED IT! It had good (and bad) acting, amazing effects, great music and a plot with goofy monsters that made no sense. JUST LIKE THE TV SERIES. When the box office proved so strong that it toppled Titanic from the top spot, I was thrilled. A new sci-fi franchise!

Not.

Everyone else hated it. LiS fans, movie fans, kids, critics, everyone! After that boffo opening weekend, the movie plummeted like the Jupiter 2 without deutronium. To this day, LiS fans loathe the film. Me? I still love it. At least the people I saw it with dug it, too, so that's four of us.


I think it was treated a bit unfairly. It is difficult territory to tread, since the series was pretty camp and stylistically colorful 60's. They decided to take it somewhat seriously, with some pretty awesome production design and some real actors like William Hurt. The score is very good, but I think that they probably hurt themselves with some pop songs in there. The effects were really good, with the exception of those spiders, I did not really believe those, but those were some rather early efforts at CG. Stephen Hopkins was a good director, I think he did a lot of damage to his long term career with this one and with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which also bombed enormously.

 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 8:44 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Yeah, just look at his wikipedia info, he has done some pretty interesting things outside of movies. Sounds pretty genius level, just not the best special effects artist for a Star Trek movie.

ILM spoiled us forever.


While I certainly appreciate well-created special effects, even those end up looking dated eventually. However, my primary interest in films is how the characters relate to one another and how they react to situations. That is one of the many reasons I enjoy STV.

On a personal, somewhat OT note, STV was released in the summer of 1989, just after I had graduated from high school. It was a refreshing boost in that uncertain time. In fact, 1989 would have been a great "childhood year" for me, given the number of entertaining films--Batman, Lethal Weapon II, The Abyss, Major League, and even the mind-mindbogglingly-unloved-in-this-thread Last Crusade. But of course I was no longer a child (boo hoo hoo). wink

It also could boast some more "mature" fare that I recall liking a whole lot in that year and continue to revisit to this day (Crimes and Misdemeanors; Dead Poets Society; Glory; and Born on the Fourth of July).

 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 8:49 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Stephen Hopkins was a good director, I think he did a lot of damage to his long term career with this one and with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which also bombed enormously.

I was trying to think of a film that was really panned that I liked and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is one of them. Totally over the top, but I enjoyed it a great deal. Some great special effects. The score was awesome as well.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Stephen Hopkins was a good director, I think he did a lot of damage to his long term career with this one and with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which also bombed enormously.

I was trying to think of a film that was really panned that I liked and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is one of them. Totally over the top, but I enjoyed it a great deal. Some great special effects. The score was awesome as well.


I never felt that the ending fell right somehow. But I think it is sort of a throwback movie, like The Shadow. I liked it as well, some audacious effects for sure. And anything with Connery is worth at least a couple stars right off the bat. Plus that cool submarine and the car.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

That was an excellent summer Jim.

1989 was terrific.

I cannot imagine anyone disliking The Last Crusade, totally terrific picture. And there was something perfectly escapist about that summer. STV and Crusade in particular were perfectly escapist, and the hotter it was outside the better it was to sink into an air conditioned cinema and sink into those worlds. I think I enjoyed ST V much more because it was summer, not sure if that makes sense.

 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

Stephen Hopkins was a good director, I think he did a lot of damage to his long term career with this one and with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which also bombed enormously.

I was trying to think of a film that was really panned that I liked and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is one of them. Totally over the top, but I enjoyed it a great deal. Some great special effects. The score was awesome as well.


Hopkins did not direct The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Stephen Norrington did.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 10:06 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Stephen Hopkins was a good director, I think he did a lot of damage to his long term career with this one and with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which also bombed enormously.

I was trying to think of a film that was really panned that I liked and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is one of them. Totally over the top, but I enjoyed it a great deal. Some great special effects. The score was awesome as well.


Hopkins did not direct The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Stephen Norrington did.


ah,, correct, then his other bomb was Predator 2.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 10:44 AM   
 By:   Nightingale   (Member)

Not sure I'm alone in this, given that this forum is essentially a science fiction forum first and a film score forum second...but I love Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Unconditionally. I adored the film when I saw it in '89 and I adore it today. There is nothing wrong with that film. At all. Nothing.



Jim I really enjoy V as well, i think i saw it 6 or 7 times when it came out. It could be said that the effects are not too good, but I think that this was a rare case when simpler effects were actually a good thing, the effects carried on that throwback to the series effect of the whole movie. It is remarkably good for a 'bad' film.


I believe the effects company were rushed so it's not all their fault. Also this film has one of my favorite effects shots of all the films. The Enterprise in front of the Moon! Why no one has ever done that before is beyond me. There was a lot of dumbing down as well. The guy in charge of the special effects had a lot of great ideas that were shot down. Oh, and add me as one that enjoys this film!


I cannot condemn anyone for liking ST-V (I'll take it over nu-Trek any day), but to me it's biggest detraction is it's (mostly) dreadful visual effects. The "moon shot" you mention (which I concede is a great idea) looks like a model hanging in front of a flat picture of the moon.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   Nightingale   (Member)

Yeah, just look at his wikipedia info, he has done some pretty interesting things outside of movies. Sounds pretty genius level, just not the best special effects artist for a Star Trek movie.

ILM spoiled us forever.


No, Douglas Trumbull (Star Trek-The Motion Picture) spoiled us forever. ILM was a decent "B" team though. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 24, 2014 - 11:27 AM   
 By:   John McMasters   (Member)

Graham, for what it is worth I agree 100% with you about The Exorcist II. Some other films I love:

Mame
One from the Heart
Crimes of Passion
Legend of the Lone Ranger
At Long Last Love
Strange Brew

 
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