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 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 8:27 AM   
 By:   Disco Stu   (Member)

I like "Alien" because it gave us "Aliens"; king of the hill as far as that franchise is concerned.

D.S.

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   Charles Thaxton   (Member)

I just think the Hanson piece (as it begins when the beast is jettisoned) signifies the "orgasm/release" of the intense victory over the alien and the ending theme brings the calm and peace of sleep....(not butterflies).

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

I think Goldsmith's score is perfect the way it is, but I belong to those who prefer the "Scott edit" rather than Goldsmith's original conception. It plays wonderfully to the film's freudian symbolism throughout -- which is its MAIN strength, IMO, and makes it something more than just a horror movie.

It's actually kind of odd to hear you say that. You normally don't prefer how a score works within the context of a film. So, would you say that the film edit would work better for you as a listening experience than the Goldsmith produced original soundtrack?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 8:48 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I just think the Hanson piece (as it begins when the beast is jettisoned) signifies the "orgasm/release" of the intense victory over the alien and the ending theme brings the calm and peace of sleep....(not butterflies).

Yeah, yeah, you had to go bring that O word into this Charles. Oh, well.

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 8:53 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

"Aliens" is nothing more than "Rambo in Space"

That's passing Rambo a hell of a compliment. I have yet to see a Rambo film with as much depth of characterization, honest excitement and heart as Aliens. That's what elevates Aliens over most other sci-fi horror/actioners. The characters and relationships made it stand out among other films of its kind. And while I don't find Aliens to be nearly as terrifying as the first film (it's startling more than actually scary), I love how it developed Ripley into a real person. I just wish the climax wasn't a note by note rewrite of the original. "Blowing the alien into space" was used to end 3 out of the 4 "Ripley's."

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 8:56 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I think Goldsmith's score is perfect the way it is, but I belong to those who prefer the "Scott edit" rather than Goldsmith's original conception. It plays wonderfully to the film's freudian symbolism throughout -- which is its MAIN strength, IMO, and makes it something more than just a horror movie.

It's actually kind of odd to hear you say that. You normally don't prefer how a score works within the context of a film. So, would you say that the film edit would work better for you as a listening experience than the Goldsmith produced original soundtrack?


I was not talking about listening experiences/albums here. Only about how the score works in the film. To be perfectly honest, I've never really been that interested in ALIEN on album -- whatever version. Not really my kind of score.

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 8:59 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

I know you weren't, but since I normally don't see you comment on how scores work within the films, it jumped out.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I know you weren't, but since I normally don't see you comment on how scores work within the films, it jumped out.

Really? Well, I try to comment on that as often as I can. I'm very interested in how music works in films (heck, I wrote my Ph.D. on that very subject!), but I separate very rigidly between that and soundtrack listening. Two separate interests that don't have anything with each other for me.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 1:37 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Just an observation here, it seems people from the Norway part of the world like this wallpaper Tangerine Dream style stuff, I have seen a few people here from that area that are favorable to that stuff. so what is that, the cold weather?


Well, I'm in North America (four, count 'em, four distinct seasons) and I love Tangerine Dream. And there are examples where it's specifically for the "wallpaper" stuff. Whatever suits my mood.

But I will say that many of their scores can be somewhat lacking. Don't get me wrong... a lot of them are excellent but, as Edgar Froese himself has often admitted, they take the scoring jobs primarily for the money.

As far as the ending underscore; I love what Goldsmith came up with. I would like that to have been used. But I do not really mind the Hanson. It's nice to have both available.

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 1:50 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

I think Goldsmith's score is perfect the way it is, but I belong to those who prefer the "Scott edit" rather than Goldsmith's original conception. It plays wonderfully to the film's freudian symbolism throughout -- which is its MAIN strength, IMO, and makes it something more than just a horror movie.

Yes, Thor, they temped Alien with cues from Goldsmith's "Freud".

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 2:07 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

"Aliens" is nothing more than "Rambo in Space" whereas the first film is and always will be one of the best thrillers ever made; God, the Harry Dean Stanton scene is brilliant suspense. Alien is, also, as seen through adult eyes-- a dystopic kick in the balls. The sense of dread I had watching the masterful 1979 film was more than just the brilliantly designed creature, it was also the absolute wretched society that loomed off screen and formed the characters' personalities. I appreciate the fact that Aliens further addressed the salacious evil of the company Paul Reiser represented, however. No bright Roddenberry future in this world.

IMO, "Aliens" is the better thriller as I was much more scared and excited by Aliens and in all honesty bored with "Alien" when I first saw it. I took to Alien the more times I saw it and love the design, score, ... but in all honesty parts of it still drag and parts of it haven't dated as well, and that for me was a huge stumbling block when I first saw the movie. Seeing the director's cut re-released in theaters did make me appreciate the movie more.

'Aliens' will always be for me the superior sequel, the scale and performances are so much bigger and the aliens really get to go to town (pardon the pun). The military aspect also made it bigger and the high tech gear and vehicles, setting, ... It took everything from the first film and IMO made it better, gave it a much needed update and then more. The radar device and camera monitoring, the facehuggers, the alien itself, the bishop android, the queen, the futuristic colony with its cold sets, the mechanical work suits, ... And it also managed to put Ripley -who we first saw in the future in Alien- and put her in an even later future and made her need to prove herself again (which I always found clever, they could've just resumed after Alien). For an action/horror/thriller, it has so many good sci-fi 'ideas' that have become recycled over and over in the years following. Not to mention the ambitious special effects and camera setups, I admire Cameron for getting the most out of pre-CGI special effects and it looks so stunning!

Score-wise, there are so many memorable sequences in Aliens, I was blown away by Horner's frantic action that made the already shocking visuals even more horrific. Goldsmith's score is great, but doesn't get to strut like Horner's does. Which isn't a bad thing, I like both scores for the nightmarish mood they create.

Oh, and in regards to Aliens, I prefer the theatrical cut over the extended; while there are some nice extra sequences, they add little of importance to the story. The theatrical plays the best for me.

oh, and for good fun xD

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

"Aliens" is nothing more than "Rambo in Space"

That's passing Rambo a hell of a compliment. I have yet to see a Rambo film with as much depth of characterization, honest excitement and heart as Aliens. That's what elevates Aliens over most other sci-fi horror/actioners. The characters and relationships made it stand out among other films of its kind.


I was referring to the endless gunfights. I've never heard anyone refer to the deep characterizations that you mention but they sure love "Game over, man!"

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 2:50 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I think Goldsmith's score is perfect the way it is, but I belong to those who prefer the "Scott edit" rather than Goldsmith's original conception. It plays wonderfully to the film's freudian symbolism throughout -- which is its MAIN strength, IMO, and makes it something more than just a horror movie.

Yes, Thor, they temped Alien with cues from Goldsmith's "Freud".


Yeah, I know, but that seems to be more of a coincidence. The "Freud" cues are placed in moments where the freudian musicovisual symbolism isn't that potent (air shaft, acid test). It's far more apparent in the "breathing" two-note motif from the opening which is then mirrored in the vagina/womb-like corridors of the alien spaceship -- thus linking the two womb-like sequences.

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 3:06 PM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)

Bladerunner is another ballgame, and I like Vangelis, but he is a long way from the compositional expertise of Jerry Goldsmith. And further, as someone else said, why cannot we just accept these old films as they are anyway? I mean I understand that what-if second guessing of so many marginal to terrible scores of films nowadays, but why would we second guess classic films and scores. I mean, like what if Hans Zimmer scored Ben Hur? (Oh yeah, that was Gladiator.)

Just an observation here, it seems people from the Norway part of the world like this wallpaper Tangerine Dream style stuff, I have seen a few people here from that area that are favorable to that stuff. so what is that, the cold weather?


It has nothing to do with not "accepting" the film as it is. I didn't diss your god Goldsmith, did I? I just stated that *I*, personally, would have preferred a score by a band like Tangerine Dream. You mean Alien is a classic score. Fine, but accept that not everyone else agree.

And about your observations about TD and "the Norway part of the world" as you call it: Well, some people just have good taste. ;-)

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 3:59 PM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

OK...

I saw Alien on opening night back in '79 - watched it countless times since. To me it is just as tense and lovely and scary as it was back then. Just a great film.

I love Goldsmith. But guess I am hooked on the score as heard in the film... Freud & Hanson included. I really think the cue used for the air shaft scene works better than JG's original.

I love Tangerine Dream. Huge fan. But they'd have been wrong for this movie. However...it is agreed Thief IS a masterpiece of electronic film scoring and a damn good score any way ya slice it.

But TD shoulda scored Michael Mann's Heat big grin

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 4:12 PM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)


And I can't help thinking what Tangerine Dream (or even Jean-Michel Jarre) would have done if they had scored it. Would have been magic! ;-)


Weak trolling.

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 5:15 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

I think Goldsmith's score is perfect the way it is, but I belong to those who prefer the "Scott edit" rather than Goldsmith's original conception. It plays wonderfully to the film's freudian symbolism throughout -- which is its MAIN strength, IMO, and makes it something more than just a horror movie.

Yes, Thor, they temped Alien with cues from Goldsmith's "Freud".


Yeah, I know, but that seems to be more of a coincidence. The "Freud" cues are placed in moments where the freudian musicovisual symbolism isn't that potent (air shaft, acid test). It's far more apparent in the "breathing" two-note motif from the opening which is then mirrored in the vagina/womb-like corridors of the alien spaceship -- thus linking the two womb-like sequences.


An air shaft not having freudian subtext? wink I was just joking with the previous post, as I just found it funny that a movie with Freudian symbolism has music from a film about Freud. big grin

 
 Posted:   Aug 9, 2013 - 7:40 PM   
 By:   Elmo Bernstein   (Member)

I was referring to the endless gunfights. I've never heard anyone refer to the deep characterizations that you mention but they sure love "Game over, man!"

I love both films, and think Alien is the more artistically-rendered picture, but I find the characterizations in the sequel more satisfying, as much of it deals with Ripley's maternal instincts, and the bond she forms with Newt. For me it's quite an emotional moment near the end when Newt embraces Ripley and says "Mommy!"

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2013 - 2:55 AM   
 By:   Alex Cremers   (Member)

I love Alien, not because it's scary or for its story, but because of the emotions I get from the sound and vision. It's an art movie. It operates on a level that is based on aesthetic emotions. It's full of design statements, has an intriguing visual vision and an atmosphere as thick as a xenomorph's slime. It was Heavy metal! It's the dark side of 2001: A Space Odyssey! When I bought the Blu-ray box (containing all 4 films), I watched Aliens right after Alien. Bad mistake! I had to adjust my frame of mind because Aliens works like an ordinary blockbuster, and a dated one at that. Rambo in space? Well, perhaps not completely, but I do understand the remark.


Alex

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2013 - 7:12 AM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

And I can't help thinking what Tangerine Dream (or even Jean-Michel Jarre) would have done if they had scored it. Would have been magic!


Thank the space gods that's something that never came to pass.

First Breath, you may be interested to know that the original choice for scoring ALIEN was Isao Tomita*.

*I can't believe that I'm the first smartass in this thread to point that out. wink

 
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