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Kirk - "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat."
The episode The Ultimate Computer was centered around the Wargames trial and testing the M5 computer for military maneuvers. You don't equip a starship with phasers, photon torpedoes, deflector shields, etc. unless you expect to go into combat.
Thanks: that's the quote I was looking for above. And you're quite right. Anyone who'd arm a ship with nuclear weapons that isn't a warship is a pure madman!
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Posted: |
May 27, 2013 - 11:29 AM
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By: |
Dyfrynt
(Member)
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Interesting discussion, albeit in the realms of make-believe.
Depends which reality you live in. 
Been giving the "military" thing a lot of thought and it seems to me that a case can be made that Star Fleet is closer to a modern day police force as seen in the U.S. and Europe.
One of the major roles of police is to keep the peace. This was established in TOS as part of the Enterprise's job as well. Out on the frontier of space, it was the Star Ship that had the authority to settle disputes between planets.
The police have ranks, but they don't go around saluting everyone. You've never seen anyone salute anyone on Star Trek TOS. Star Fleet is a much more informal organization than any military organization I have ever seen.
The police have "uniforms" but they are more casual wear than the military. Detectives don't have any uniform at all except the modern day uniform of the three piece suit. Which stands for professionalism (at least in theory).
The police force is voluntary and you are hired and can be fired. So is Star Fleet. There is no term of service one must finish.
Unlike the police (and the military), every crew member of a star ship is an officer. Ensign is the lowest rank. There is nothing comparable to an "enlisted rank".
Finally we never saw soldiers on the Enterprise. The crew members that went with an away team to protect the group (the infamous Red Shirts) were security specialists. They were trained to fight, similar to the training of modern day police. They were not trained to the level of armed soldiers.
Finishing this off, the crew of the Enterprise was split up into Command, Sciences, and Engineering. Though the ship had a brig, it was maintained by security specialists. There is no equivalent to a soldier to be found. Nor can I ever remember seeing a crew member in TOS whose training was overtly as a soldier.
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Posted: |
May 27, 2013 - 2:48 PM
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By: |
Matt S.
(Member)
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Unlike the police (and the military), every crew member of a star ship is an officer. Ensign is the lowest rank. There is nothing comparable to an "enlisted rank".
Finally we never saw soldiers on the Enterprise. The crew members that went with an away team to protect the group (the infamous Red Shirts) were security specialists. They were trained to fight, similar to the training of modern day police. They were not trained to the level of armed soldiers.
Finishing this off, the crew of the Enterprise was split up into Command, Sciences, and Engineering. Though the ship had a brig, it was maintained by security specialists. There is no equivalent to a soldier to be found. Nor can I ever remember seeing a crew member in TOS whose training was overtly as a soldier.
First off, there ARE enlisted ranks aboard the starships. We don't see them very often, but they are there. Miles O'Brien was a chief petty officer, an enlisted man. Also, in "The Drumhead," there was a subplot involving an enlisted medical technician (Simon Tarses) who was under suspicion because he was part Romulan and hid his heritage when he enlisted. There is even a scene between him and Picard where he discussed his decision to enlist rather than go the Academy and become an officer.
As for there being no "soldiers" aboard the Enterprise, well, that's because Starfleet is more equivalent to a Navy than an Army. Many U.S. Navy ships might have a complement of U.S. Marines, but the Naval personnel are certainly trained, and trained well, to fight. (Think of the MACOs aboard the NX-01 Enterprise as equivalent to Marines).
There were many wartime episodes of Deep Space Nine that explicitly showed Starfleet "soldiers." (....Nor Battle to the Strong, and The Siege of AR-558 come immediately to mind.) They wore black combat uniforms with division stripes across the chest.
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Posted: |
May 27, 2013 - 7:17 PM
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By: |
Matt S.
(Member)
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Matt, I think I made it clear I was referring to the Original Series. Which is the first and thus closest to Roddenberry's vision.
Next Generalization and Deep Space Nine are entirely different animals. There were NO enlisted crew on board the original TV series. None. Zip. Zero. I challenge you to find a noncom in any episode of TOS. You won't because you can't.
That went for the TOS movies as well. Yes there was a tactical team used as a strike force in ST5, though I still considered that more a Swat team than a group of space marines.
And in ST6, Meyers screwed it up when he showed the junior crew living dormitory style in bunk beds. It was well established in the TV series that every one of the crew had private quarters. Meyers blew it there.
Noncom in TOS? Yeoman Rand. Yeomen are NOT officers, but enlisted naval personnel who are usually assigned to various administrative duties. This is backed up in Star Trek canon in the Voyager episode "Flashback," where Rand teases Tuvok about trying to curry favor with Captain Sulu in order to earn a promotion, saying it took her a number of years (I forget he exact quote) just to make "ensign."
And with the TOS movies, there is a "Chief DiFalco" in TMP (actually played by Shatner's wife, I believe). That doesn't automatically make her a noncom, but there is little other reason to call her "chief" unless that is what she was.
As far as the dorms in Star Trek VI, it is absolutely plausible that the noncoms bunk together, and only the senior officers get their own quarters. Otherwise, why do they address the guy with the funky feet as "Crewman" Dax? If he is at least an Ensign, wouldn't they call him Ensign Dax? Then there were the two assasins, Yeomen Burke & Samno.
It makes no sense from a practical standpoint that all 430 men and women aboard the original Enterprise were all officers. In the military, officers are management and the enlisted are the workforce. No business, military or civilian, can operate with all managers.
Just because it wasn't explicitly seen on TOS doesn't mean it didn't exist. A reasonable degree of extrapolation is necessary here.
I realize the later spinoff series got away from Roddenberry's vision, but even in the TOS timeframe, I can't see Starfleet as anything other than a military organization. When the Klingons were about to invade in "Errand of Mercy," it was Starfleet who was about to fight them until the Organians stepped in.
It was Kirk and the Enterprise who invaded Romulan space, conducted espionage and stole a piece of critical military hardware--the cloaking device, specifically to maintain the balance of power.
Starfleet's mission is much more broad than the mission of the US Navy, for sure. While the Navy exists solely to defend the United States (as is any country's navy, not just the US's), Starfleet is there for exploration and scientific discovery. But if the enemy comes, it's Starfleet who stands to fight.
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Although pitched as "Wagon Train to the stars" Star Trek was obviously modeled on the exploratory voyages of Captain James Cook ("Captain James Kirk" being an obvious reference to the famous explorer). Cook brought arms and marines on his exploratory voyages. Star Trek's security guards were costumed in red shirts much like the "redcoats" charged with defense of British ships and crew. Whether exploring the Earth in the 18th century or the galaxy in the 23rd, it would be foolish to do so without arms and soldiers trained in their use. So yeah, Starfeet is definitely military.
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The entire franchise SCREAMS nautical military structure.
James Tiberius Kirk "may" have, in a moment of scriptwriting blindness, been given the line "I am a soldier", but no soldier ever rose to the rank of Admiral. Had he been a soldier, he would have risen to the rank of General.
Starfleet is not U.S. Navy or U.S. Coast Guard...in fact, it's not U.S. anything. It's a multi-national entity.
Spoken like a seaman. But when Kirk says 'soldier' you have to remember that the military in 'space' aren't going to be land-based, except perhaps as marines of a sort. They 'fly', they 'sail', they have no 'land' for manoeuvres. That distinction disappears. He therefore uses the term 'soldier' to denote his military status. He can hardly say he's a 'seaman'.
Of course it's not US anything: it's BASED on US Navy though.
Not to sound like some loathsome armchair general, I do have to say there are only about 30% of folk who'd make good military strategists around here with any sense of REALITY!
It again needs reiterated: a SCENTIFIC mission of that type needs DEFENCE against any enemies or dangers known or unknown. It MUST therefore be carried out by a MILITARY vessel, since no other vessel could or should be countenanced carrying such terrifying firepower. We're to believe a starship can destroy an entire planet. Do you SERIOUSLY think anyone other than the miltary have the training to be trusted with that?!!! Think it through gentlemen. I repeat: scientific missions of this kind MUST be carried out by military vessels or with military escorts in ANY century.
What's REALLY happening here is that there is a dualistic split in many modern minds between the warrior and the scientist. Nice scientist cannot be nasty warrior. But on the frontiers, that's NAIVE. It's an interesting sociological insight into the current zeitgeist though.
And y'know, it's part of the 'allegory' too. Noah had his ark, Jason had his Argo, the Osiris soul boat has to be strong enough to encounter the dangers of the watches of the night, and the ego-ship needs defences if it's to negotiate the chaos waters of the unconscious. Otherwise disaster, madness or inflation. All of which James T. Kirk was antidote for!
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