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Posted: |
Feb 26, 2015 - 9:16 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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Well, you know.... There IS a distinction between reasoned speculation based on the available facts... and straight up bizarro composer fan fiction.
you are right, I was kidding.
But not so much with my initial thoughts.
The strange composer credit on a poster, and it is Marvel.
My instincts tell me it is not some fixing Tyler could not do, as you already said.
But more than this I think this is not just some random decision which has to do
with only this film.
This is reasoned speculation too, pal.
Maybe Elfman is (planned to become) attached to another project already.
In the beginning music was not so important for Marvel, but with the beginning of Tyler
being involved in so many pictures Feige et al started to think about music much more
than before.
Maybe they divided the parts of the film almost like with Batman Begins,
but decided too late so that this seldom credit appeared.
Maybe Elfman is responsible for the Twins, or the miracles in general.
or indeed for Hulk, because the Ang Lee film is part of the Marvel CU canon.
At least when you read e.g. the art of marvel avengers book,
where the Hulk pic is seen as included in phase I, and Elfman wrote the music
for it. Maybe Whedon loved it in the temp.
I guess negotiations for the credits also involve Tyler. So they could not write
Music by Elfman and Tyler, even though that would possible actually, but not written like this
due to Tylers contract already in place.
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It just occurred to me that Elfman got his own separate credit on the Army of Darkness poster for a single theme.
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Posted: |
Feb 26, 2015 - 11:08 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Why Elfman?
That is the point.
How come it is Elfman?
Reasonable to think director and/or producer wanted him specifically.
Yes. But the simplest explanation is the most likely. That is…
Film is in post-production. Like all giant-budget effects-heavy tentpole films with a release-date set years in advance, it is in a constant state of flux as effects come in, sequences are recut, and music is recorded.
At some point, Whedon or the studio decides some element of Tyler's score -- whether it's exactly what they asked for or whether he never quite got what they wanted -- isn't what the film needs.
Maybe Tyler gets another shot. Maybe he doesn't. If he does, they still aren't happy. If he doesn't, maybe it's because he's simply committed to other projects. This is all speculation, of course.
At this point, as johnmullin has said, if it was just a matter of filling in, they could have gotten any number of very capable, inexpensive composers to do the work, and that person's name would be buried in the end credits (if at all). But they chose instead to go with somebody who's very expensive and demanded poster credit (which is no small concession from a studio).
Why?
My guess is that the filmmakers found inspiration in some Elfman piece. That's what they were looking for. Maybe for a certain character, maybe for a certain set-piece. At this point, they could hire somebody to emulate it, or they could go to the source.
I stress, none of this is based on any specific information besides the poster, but it is based on how the entertainment industry works (and it's the industry I work in). Had they hired Elfman when they hired Tyler, they wouldn't have hidden that. Had they just needed a little music, they would have hired one of Tyler's people. If they wanted an existing theme that Elfman composed (unlikely, again, given the lack of musical continuity in these films anyway), his credit would have read differently.
So my guess is just a guess, but it's an educated one.
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Posted: |
Feb 26, 2015 - 11:40 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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Why Elfman?
That is the point.
How come it is Elfman?
Reasonable to think director and/or producer wanted him specifically.
Yes. But the simplest explanation is the most likely. That is…
Film is in post-production. Like all giant-budget effects-heavy tentpole films with a release-date set years in advance, it is in a constant state of flux as effects come in, sequences are recut, and music is recorded.
At some point, Whedon or the studio decides some element of Tyler's score -- whether it's exactly what they asked for or whether he never quite got what they wanted -- isn't what the film needs.
Maybe Tyler gets another shot. Maybe he doesn't. If he does, they still aren't happy. If he doesn't, maybe it's because he's simply committed to other projects. This is all speculation, of course.
At this point, as johnmullin has said, if it was just a matter of filling in, they could have gotten any number of very capable, inexpensive composers to do the work, and that person's name would be buried in the end credits (if at all). But they chose instead to go with somebody who's very expensive and demanded poster credit (which is no small concession from a studio).
Why?
My guess is that the filmmakers found inspiration in some Elfman piece. That's what they were looking for. Maybe for a certain character, maybe for a certain set-piece. At this point, they could hire somebody to emulate it, or they could go to the source.
I stress, none of this is based on any specific information besides the poster, but it is based on how the entertainment industry works (and it's the industry I work in). Had they hired Elfman when they hired Tyler, they wouldn't have hidden that. Had they just needed a little music, they would have hired one of Tyler's people. If they wanted an existing theme that Elfman composed (unlikely, again, given the lack of musical continuity in these films anyway), his credit would have read differently.
So my guess is just a guess, but it's an educated one.
so we are saying essentially the very same, they wanted him specifically.
on the periphery I added a wilder scenario to ruminate about
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Posted: |
Feb 26, 2015 - 12:40 PM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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Yeah, but the "wilder" scenarios assume and suppose things that are totally unknowable at this point (such as Joss Whedon personal listening habits and Marvel's long term plans, all of which seem far-fetched to me at best). ...So why do it? It just starts bad rumors and misleads people who don't know any better.
If I had spelled out my reasoning in drawing my conclusions in great detail, I would have written something very similar to what SchiffyM wrote above. That all seems pretty sound to me, BUT - and I think SchiffyM would agree - there's a possibility that this interpretation is totally wrong. I don't see the need to invent wild scenarios that aren't really based on anything beyond that.
because this is a message board where film music enthusiasts share their thoughts, pal.
And enthusiastis like to talk not also hard facts, but let their fantasy soar and like to talk
about what-if things.
Sorry if I offended, but can you explain me:
how could someone be hurt or have a disadvantage by a post here which explicitly is a speculation, I don't get your "bad rumour" paranoia, or do you think what people post here is so influential? What is the damage? This is no news-reports-platform.
If it's truth you want try philosophy.
Or can you tell me who named you rumour-police-officer or named you the one to tell how and what to post?
Sorry, I have a hard time right now and actually don't want to argue, but just relax and stop saying what people are supposed to write here. This is no news agency.
If you don't see the need, why are you here in the first place? Maybe just rock on then and stand that there are people who are not such fond of having someone who explains the world to them.
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