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'Amok Time' and 'Doomsday Machine'. dayum...
The music for Amok Time tells the whole story without being mickey-mousey. It just supports everything going on on-screen and in Spock's head.
Doomsday Machine is just disturbing. It also just gives you EVERYTHING the characters are going through.
But, maaan, that's a heavy one-two punch for one disc. You guys couldn't have broken that up? ;-)
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Posted: |
Dec 17, 2012 - 7:45 PM
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By: |
Namcisum
(Member)
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Greetings all. I am finally into the season three box and I must say I have seldom been brought to tears at listening to some of the finest music ever done for anything. Christmas really came early this year for everybody.
Now, having said that, I do have a question. Some folks have pointed out distortion in "Doomsday Machine" ( which I could not hear as it sounded beautiful to me ), but I was wondering if anyone has noticed what sounds like an acoustic distortion in Track 16 on Disc 2 of the season 3 box for about the first two minutes. I have played the track through three different systems, and it's less pronounced in the cheaper stereo, but it sounds, to my ears at least, like the music is played so powerfully that it creates a hissing echo ( my best description ) at certain intervals that nearly overpowers the music. Is this just my disc that has this or is it some anomaly inherent to the age of the tapes? Thanks in advance for any insight into this.
Regardless, it is an AWESOME set. Many thanks to everyone who made this 40 plus year dream a reality.
We've addressed that cue elsewhere. The day that cue was recorded they were clearly having tech problems. I looked at earlier takes (it was take 3) and they were either incomplete or featured the same issue. We also looked at the library dub down roll, but that noted "static" as well and sure enough it had the same issue. That's just how it was recorded.
The cue also isn't used in Spock's Brain, possibly for this reason, but I heard it tracked into "Wink of an Eye" and you guessed it, the distortion is there as well.
Neil
Thank you Neil for clarifying my question. Must have missed the post where this was addressed earlier, though I did make an effort ( obviously not as thorough as I had hoped. LOL ) to find such. Glad to know it wasn't my imagination. Thanks again.
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Finished listening to Season Two a few hours ago, now into Season Three, but thought I'd presumptuously share my thoughts here:
First, there is "Metamorphosis," which is my favorite of The Original Series scores. Hearing it apart from the dialogue and episode only heightened my opinion and esteem for it - this is beautiful music and well performed - I'm glad we're in the throes of a current Duning revival, between this and the newer and upcoming Kritzerland releases (not to mention all of the FSM Duning albums - which you should really pick up!) The use of a fuller string section also separates it from much of the rest of the series (also reminiscent more of "The Conscience of the King" in that regard), and that gorgeous, long-lined melody for The Companion is - from a career filled to overflowing with them - one of Duning's most sensitive melodies.
"Return to Tomorrow" also has some marvelous material in it - the yearning main theme there is great, and I also enjoyed his interpolations of Steiner's "Blackship" theme quite a bit - it's a sly touch that lends the music that much more cohesion in terms of its place in the series.
"Who Mourns for Adonais?" is a triumph by Fred Steiner, and is also something of a "Greatest Hits" score, with all of the other thematic and motivic material referenced from other Steiner episodes. Then, there's "Apollo's Storm," a brilliant bit of orchestral frenzy, with its churning rhythms and interpolations of the Apollo motif. It's all very intelligently written music, and it's wonderful.
I have to say, hearing "Amok Time" on the set was like hearing it for the first time (to coin a cliché) - not necessarily because of the much improved sound quality - but because of having come directly from the two Fried scores on disc one, that context made me hear the score in an entirely new way, and I was able to draw connections between the three (the "Mace Fight" theme making a few appearances, for example), that I hadn't made in previous listens. It's a great score, made even better by its placement in the set.
I love Matlovsky's "I, Mudd." There, I said it. It seems to turn on a dime, and it's such a strange, strident, bizarre score - it does have that Weillian diversity of style (of course, it's not as brilliant as Weill, but what is?), and the melodies are quite charming.
Courage's new library cues are also a real great thing - particularly his "Sad and Thoughtful on Captain's Theme," which uses my favorite motif of his - so noble and lonely, with its wider intervalic relationships - to wonderful effect, and great development.
And then there's all the stuff I haven't mentioned, which is just as swell and great as what I yammered on about. Bravo!
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Too many chills, images and finally the dream - the cowardly abandonned cue by GNP - of finally hearing one of my favorite action cue of all time.
I remember the first time I had the original cassette in hand. I put it in my walkman. Enjoyed the ride... then. Ugh?! Finished!!? Where's the final battle scene (James R. cue)?!!!
I was so mad at GNP for that. How could they do that to real Trek fans?!!
The cue was left off the original release probably because it wasn't included on Courage's personal tapes, which were the source for that album. Considering that was the first release of any actual Star Trek original series music in any form, I'm not exactly sure how that qualifies as “cowardly.” Furthermore, considering that the people at GNP Crescendo participated in the creation of this box set you seem to love so much, your ire might be just a little bit misplaced.
It is possible to praise one thing without denigrating another. I know, I've seen it done.
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I must say I don't understand the rush of some who already went through it all... at all!!
How do you enjoy life? Living as fast as you can?! Never take time to appreciate things?
Why the rush?
What rush? Are we done? We listen to it one time and then never again? Not in my case; I went through it quickly to satisfy the massive urge to hear so many unreleased cues. Now I'm going back and savoring it slowly. I'll enjoy it my way, you enjoy it yours.
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Considering that was the first release of any actual Star Trek original series music in any form...
That still astounds me. It hardly seems possible. So much of TOS was old news by the time I got to it I can hardly believe that I bought this when it came out.
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The cue was left off the original release probably because it wasn't included on Courage's personal tapes, which were the source for that album. Considering that was the first release of any actual Star Trek original series music in any form, I'm not exactly sure how that qualifies as “cowardly.”
Also don't forget the GNP releases were originally on LPs which are generally limited to 52 minutes of playing time, about 8 minutes short of the entire Cage and WNMHGB program.
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Yes, the 1985 GNP album of The Cage/Where No Man... was made from Sandy's personal tapes, and a few cues were so badly deteriorated they could not be included. The complete Star Trek music masters had gone missing from the studio in the early 1970s and did not surface until GNP acquired them in 1990 from a private collector—and that's all I have to say about that!
Lukas
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There are a couple of scores--Man Trap, And The Children Shall Lead, and to an extent Plato's Stepchildren--that have some long, long, fairly subdued cues, and I think that makes them among the more challenging listens for me. All of them have great moments (the end of Plato's Stepchildren might be my favorite Trek fly-off ending other than Fried's "Godfathers") and all three scores are fairly experimental, especially Man Trap and And The Children Shall Lead--the latter features some very daring experimentation with effects from the Yamaha keyboard Duning used. Man Trap is kind of the ultimate 50s/60s "space monster" score--eerie and outre.
I find them challenging as well. When I listen simply to focus on and enjoy the music rather than as background for a scene, I find myself rather impatient to move on when listening to portions of cues that have a rather slow tempo, minimal repeating melody, and little to no harmony (perhaps one lingering note). "Some Corpse" from WNMHGB, and most of the Man Trap cues are good examples.
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Yes, the 1985 GNP album of The Cage/Where No Man... was made from Sandy's personal tapes, and a few cues were so badly deteriorated they could not be included. The complete Star Trek music masters had gone missing from the studio in the early 1970s and did not surface until GNP acquired them in 1990 from a private collector—and that's all I have to say about that!
Lukas
That explains a few things. Thanks for sharing!
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"Some Corpse" from WNMHGB, and most of the Man Trap cues are good examples.
That's as much sound effect as music. I was always a little curious as to which it was meant to be.
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Posted: |
Dec 18, 2012 - 2:51 PM
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By: |
Heath
(Member)
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A few musings from me about the set.
Triple "A"s all round for presentation. The producers and sound engineers have done the most totally superb job. My thanks and congratulations to you all.
Music-wise, the set has not changed my long standing opinion that Star Trek's finest and most iconic music lay in its first season, although contributions from Kaplan (Doomsday) Duning (Metamorphosis) and Steiner (Adonais) for the second season still rank among the best ever written for ANY TV show ever. But I still feel that changing times for the show, in terms of tone and budgets, took their toll on the scoring, especially in the third season.
In some cases, the law of diminishing returns seems to be going on - case in point George Duning's music. When listening to the sumptuous inventiveness of Metamorphosis and then comparing it to the somewhat perfunctory starkness of And The Children, I get the feeling that the whole show was in trouble. Indeed it was. I realise that the two stories are very different, but I know a composer marking time after being handed a lemon to score when I hear one. No disrespect to Duning. He did a good enough, workmanlike job. But it wasn't up there with the earlier work. I have to say that something similar was going on with Steiner and Courage in that third season.
I wonder how Sol Kaplan would have fared in that period. In fact, I wonder why he wasn't hired at all. Sol's music was always so profound, mixing the epic with the humane. And he was dead serious. Looks like they didn't want any of THAT for their lightweight third season... although, to be fair, maybe he just wasn't available!
I sound like a miserable SOB. I don't mean to. I'd buy the set again for twice the price. The third season Trek music is fine... it's just not as "Oh My God" great as season one and (partly) season two.
Having said all that, I'm so grateful that they brought Fielding back for Spectre. It really is a miniature gem of TV scoring and was indeed a foretaste of what was to come with The Wild Bunch, not in scale but in its remarkably uncliched musical representation of an antique old West. You can smell the horse dung in the music... and I mean that in the BEST POSSIBLE WAY!
OK. Two more quick-ish points: Doomsday Machine. A slight technical gripe here. Oh boy, I hope the producers won't hate me for this, but I find the dovetailing of the final lingering chord (based around TREK fourths) of "New Commander" with the Enterprise flyby music of "Approaching Killer" too close. I realise that they were trying to match the music edit to the episode's edit, but that last chord is really too lovely to have been curtailed. Sure, it's only a few seconds, but they were kinda necessary to give a proper shape to that cue, IMO. The unedited cue still exists on the old GNP CD, but the sonics are nowhere near as good. Ah well, nevermind.
Second point concerns Goodbye M. Decker. Not a gripe but an observation. Am I right in thinking that a crossfade has been made between two different takes at the (astonishing) flutter trumpets climax? The ending, with its quieter brass salutation seems a little different. In fact it's a BETTER take than that featured on the GNP album and in the actual episode, if a fraction shorter. You can hear the tuba more clearly, and the final muted trumpet call is better defined.
Sorry for the long post. Congrats if you got this far. 
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Posted: |
Dec 18, 2012 - 4:31 PM
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By: |
Jeff Bond
(Member)
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I wouldn't condemn the third season music based on "And the Children Shall Lead"--to my mind it's the worst episode of the series: dour, heavy-handed, but not over the top enough to be entertaining (as other stories like "Plato's Stepchildren" are). What's remarkable to me is that Duning did anything interesting there at all--it's a score I never paid any mind to because I refused to suffer through the episode more than once or twice over the years--but there is some experimentation there and some interesting music, despite the subject. To each his own--I far prefer Duning's second season scores to his third, but I know many for whom "Is There No Truth In Beauty?" and "The Empath" are their favorite scores. But I also like that each season has a distinct overall mood and style--first season is dark, heavy and powerful, part Twilight Zone, part nautical adventure. Season two is swaggering, sharp and adventurous; season three is moody, less powerful and lush, but still often haunting. They had less money overall and probably fewer players, but that in itself creates an interesting, alternative sound.
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Second point concerns Goodbye M. Decker. Not a gripe but an observation. Am I right in thinking that a crossfade has been made between two different takes at the (astonishing) flutter trumpets climax? The ending, with its quieter brass salutation seems a little different. In fact it's a BETTER take than that featured on the GNP album and in the actual episode, if a fraction shorter. You can hear the tuba more clearly, and the final muted trumpet call is better defined.
We present the take used in the episode. I've just double checked my edit session and our ending is phasing with the show.
Neil
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We present the take used in the episode. I've just double checked my edit session and our ending is phasing with the show.
Neil
Strange. I'm hearing something else. It's in the last 13 or 14 seconds of the cue. Maybe you could pull up the old GNP version and A/B it with the La La.
On the GNP, right at the end of the flutter trumpets crescendo, you can hear a fractional extra snare figure as the percussionist finishes the phrase slightly late. I can't hear that on the La La.
Also, directly following that on the La La, the bass piano, colouring the low orchestra, comes in slightly late and is more pronounced. I can't hear that on the GNP.
There are some extremely subtle differences in the brass. But the final muted trumpet call seems markedly different, being more much more pronounced on the La La.
It could be that I'm just hearing more detail in the new remastered version. Yet, I could swear there are two versions going on here.
It's entirely possible that the GNP album used a different take for the end of the cue. What's on our album is the preferred take as heard in the episode.
Neil
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