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anyone else notice that the theme is 7 notes -one for each Avenger?
bruce
ps yeah i know its really 14 notes, so sue me
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Fury is not an Avenger.
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If you make a movie and you hire three or four composers to write a score, those three or four scores will be different. Same thing with directors (example: the two Snow White movies they're releasing this year).
Also, Silvestri used the Cap. America theme because it's the only theme he wrote for a recent Marvel movie.
If Debney, Dwajidi or Doyle would have scored Avengers, they would have brought back the themes they established in their previous scores. But, if a different composer would have made Avengers, then he would have threw away everything.
And also, the few themes written for the previous films weren't established enough to be reprised (maybe the Iron Man 2 theme if Favreau would have let Debney to use it more).
That's my point: Cap didn't get re-used because people knew it better than the others, it's because it's Silvestri.
An analogy might be that if they had hired Kenneth Branagh to direct that he would have kept Chris Hemsworth and re-cast everyone else. Obviously that wouldn't happen.
So if Whedon can go along with actors cast by other directors why couldn't Silvestri have made use of themes (or sounds) by other composers?
Of course I might feel different if I could hear distinct themes for anyone in The Avengers OTHER than Captain America even if they were new.
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One might argue that the IRON MAN-scores did not feature enough of a main theme that it had to be used in THE AVENGERS. Also, it seems to me that giving each of the characters a too distinctive theme would work against the team spirit. The film needed a unifying score - and Silvestri did that.
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The thing is, the director felt the same way as Silvestri.
With such a strong and diverse ensemble, the score might have come across as a parody, or the themes would overtake the immediacy of the events on screen.
The idea is to draw people into the movie, not bludgeon them with themes over common sense.
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The thing is, the director felt the same way as Silvestri.
With such a strong and diverse ensemble, the score might have come across as a parody, or the themes would overtake the immediacy of the events on screen.
The idea is to draw people into the movie, not bludgeon them with themes over common sense.
I'd understand that totally (even though I don't agree) except Silvestri gave ONE character a theme. And it happened to be the theme Silvestri gave him in the character's own movie.
BTW, I love the track Helicarrier.
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There's something else you are all missing which is why it's EXTREMELY appropriate -- and almost essential -- that the Captain America theme is used from his film. If you'll recall, the film is not just called Captain America. It is called Captain America: The First Avenger.
For those of you not familiar with the comics, Cap was not really the first Avenger -- in fact, he didn't join until issue number 4 after it became clear that the Hulk was never going to suffice as an ongoing member because of his inability to play well with others.
However, anyone who has read the comics knows that Cap is the heart and soul of the Avengers. His values are very much the values of the team and how it operates. He is the one others aspire to be like. And even in the film, although there is much conflict between him and the others in the early going, it is ultimately he who the others rally around in the final battle and who assumes the mantle of leadership once they finally become a team rather than a group thrown together and fighting a common enemy.
So if Silvestri chose to use the theme just because it was his own composition, he serendipitously achieved something artistically that enhanced the film thematically and strengthened what the Avengers is really about. "And there came a day when Earth's mightiest heroes united against a common threat. On that day, the Avengers were born to fight the foes that no single hero could withstand."
This entire score very much tells that story in the team's origin story, yet one that was started in the Captain America film with the tesseract/Cosmic Cube.
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Off the top of my head:
- Avengers theme (for all of them as a team)
- Black Widow
- Loki/Chitauri
- Cosmic Cube theme (borrowed from Captain America)
- Captain America theme (inherited from Captain America)
Not a "single theme" score, though certainly no Lord of the Rings or Star Wars.
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Posted: |
Jun 1, 2012 - 1:25 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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Off the top of my head:
- Avengers theme (for all of them as a team)
d'accord, but the theme could also have been more assembled in the course of the narrative
- Black Widow
the introduction of that actually drowns in the picture, so if you don't know it is there, I think most of the viewers simply miss that connection so that it pops up later on it is not clearly tied to Black Widow
- Loki/Chitauri
this is so incredibly low-key and unremarkable, just really very cyclopedic musical material with nothing like a distinctive outline or contour, even more viewers miss that one
Actually one of the greater themes is that for Iron Man which is there but also fails to catch (as acutally no one here noticed it) because it is not really introduced and connected to the character. If there would be just a few more statements of it after Iron Man flies the Manhatten streets in the beginning and also under the dialogue in the stark tower afterwards it clearly would be established and work much more effective when it pops up later in the movie during the Iron Man moments (though it's not there during the battle mountain-peek-wood-scene).
For me one of the most effective thematic scoring moments is in the end of the track Assault: there is a cool ostinato pattern in the strings which features interesting syncopated accents, above that there is a regal statement of the Avengers theme in noble french horns (very much reminiscent of Lord of the Rings fellowship theme, some melodic turns are very similar), and after that, when Iron Man inspects the damage, there are two simplified snippet of Iron Man's theme (actually just a rising chord - that also lacks some distinction also since it was not really established in the beginning) and they are continued with Cap's theme. That's great thematic scoring really supporting the narrative and those moments are very much superior to all those any old ostinato cues with no recurring material.
Those are the moments I had wished for in more of the scenes. But beggars can't be chosers.
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Fury is not an Avenger.
the Geek* has spoken!
bruce
*it takes one to know one
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Fury is not an Avenger.
i think we should consult THE comic book expert on this question:
Riotengine?
what say you; Avenger or not Avenger?
bruce
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I agree, Fury is not an Avenger. He is the director of Shield, and the Avengers boss.
I still isist that Riotengine render the verdict on this VERY IMPORTANT issue
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Posted: |
Jun 2, 2012 - 7:38 PM
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By: |
Alera4
(Member)
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Off the top of my head:
- Avengers theme (for all of them as a team)
d'accord, but the theme could also have been more assembled in the course of the narrative
- Black Widow
the introduction of that actually drowns in the picture, so if you don't know it is there, I think most of the viewers simply miss that connection so that it pops up later on it is not clearly tied to Black Widow
- Loki/Chitauri
this is so incredibly low-key and unremarkable, just really very cyclopedic musical material with nothing like a distinctive outline or contour, even more viewers miss that one
Actually one of the greater themes is that for Iron Man which is there but also fails to catch (as acutally no one here noticed it) because it is not really introduced and connected to the character. If there would be just a few more statements of it after Iron Man flies the Manhatten streets in the beginning and also under the dialogue in the stark tower afterwards it clearly would be established and work much more effective when it pops up later in the movie during the Iron Man moments (though it's not there during the battle mountain-peek-wood-scene).
For me one of the most effective thematic scoring moments is in the end of the track Assault: there is a cool ostinato pattern in the strings which features interesting syncopated accents, above that there is a regal statement of the Avengers theme in noble french horns (very much reminiscent of Lord of the Rings fellowship theme, some melodic turns are very similar), and after that, when Iron Man inspects the damage, there are two simplified snippet of Iron Man's theme (actually just a rising chord - that also lacks some distinction also since it was not really established in the beginning) and they are continued with Cap's theme. That's great thematic scoring really supporting the narrative and those moments are very much superior to all those any old ostinato cues with no recurring material.
Those are the moments I had wished for in more of the scenes. But beggars can't be chosers.
"this is so incredibly low-key and unremarkable, just really very cyclopedic musical material with nothing like a distinctive outline or contour, even more viewers miss that one"
o·pin·ion/?'piny?n/
Noun:
A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
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