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 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 9:22 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

For goodness' sake, why are there three and a half pages of the bandwidth snatching reply from Trent on this thread? Sakes.

Damn don't blame me. It was the damn forum screwing up. It's been really dodgy lately.



I'm thinking the now self-aware forum software is setting into motion a kind of "Monsters Are Due on Maple Street" scenario.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 9:36 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)


Don't fault LLL on two releases. Others have been outstanding, ID-4, Star Trek TMP, Batman, Star Trek V, Hook, etc...



Haha, you said Batman and Hook were outstanding releases.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 9:47 PM   
 By:   darknite39   (Member)


Don't fault LLL on two releases. Others have been outstanding, ID-4, Star Trek TMP, Batman, Star Trek V, Hook, etc...



Haha, you said Batman and Hook were outstanding releases.


What's wrong with them?

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 9:53 PM   
 By:   The Projectionist   (Member)

Actually I did notice the volume levels of Superman Returns...i cant remember which but there is a couple of tracks where I question whether or not the volume was cranked up. They were somewhat quieter tracks too.
It wasn't a irritating to me though, but I sure did notice it.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:02 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

Good luck pointing out any mastering problems Marlene.

The last time I bothered with that everyone called me deaf and suggested that I must have defective hardware. I just praise God that there aren't usually any audible pops and crackles from clipping like you hear in some Japanese releases. I can't even listen to half of the major releases by Yoshihisa Hirano (Death Note for one) because the big choral works have insane amounts of clipping. Certain releases I just have to deal with it because that is the only thing available.

It is impossible to avoid poorly mastered orchestral work. I would never buy anything if I expected everything to sound like a Naxos release. Thankfully Intrada and Kritzerland rarely use the crazy amounts of gain and I haven't encountered anything so bad I couldn't listen to it from anything I got from La La Land.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 11:08 PM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

We are enormously grateful to the labels for making these great releases happen. They have striven to produce this amazing gifts to us using the best resources available to them. That makes them great. The passion and hardwork that goes into it and not to mention the $$$ that goes into each project-we should be eternaly grateful. Sure sometimes a few things may miss their mark but not altogether. I'd rather have what we can get rather than then just not have.Got it?

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 11:08 PM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

We are enormously grateful to the labels for making these great releases happen. They have striven to produce this amazing gifts to us using the best resources available to them. That makes them great. The passion and hardwork that goes into it and not to mention the $$$ that goes into each project-we should be eternaly grateful. Sure sometimes a few things may miss their mark but not altogether. I'd rather have what we can get rather than then just not have.Got it?

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 11:35 PM   
 By:   The Projectionist   (Member)

We are enormously grateful to the labels for making these great releases happen. They have striven to produce this amazing gifts to us using the best resources available to them. That makes them great. The passion and hardwork that goes into it and not to mention the $$$ that goes into each project-we should be eternaly grateful. Sure sometimes a few things may miss their mark but not altogether. I'd rather have what we can get rather than then just not have.Got it?

Well I got it, but if no one ever pointed out the mistakes, and issues that could be avoided in future releases then nothing will ever be improved. We are lucky with most of these soundtrack labels like LLL because they very often go back and fix the mistakes!
I don't know the story, but for Superman Returns it may have been a poor engineering decision, perhaps some comments on the quality of the mastering can help them improve on the next releases.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 12:18 AM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

We are enormously grateful to the labels for making these great releases happen. They have striven to produce this amazing gifts to us using the best resources available to them. That makes them great. The passion and hardwork that goes into it and not to mention the $$$ that goes into each project-we should be eternaly grateful. Sure sometimes a few things may miss their mark but not altogether. I'd rather have what we can get rather than then just not have.Got it?

Well I got it, but if no one ever pointed out the mistakes, and issues that could be avoided in future releases then nothing will ever be improved. We are lucky with most of these soundtrack labels like LLL because they very often go back and fix the mistakes!
I don't know the story, but for Superman Returns it may have been a poor engineering decision, perhaps some comments on the quality of the mastering can help them improve on the next releases.


Agreed. Well worded feedback can do wonders. But these folks are professionals and know the job well enough.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 3:44 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)


Don't fault LLL on two releases. Others have been outstanding, ID-4, Star Trek TMP, Batman, Star Trek V, Hook, etc...


Haha, you said Batman and Hook were outstanding releases.


What's wrong with them?


Hook is a dreadful-sounding release. Fluctuation of quality across the set is a nightmare, especially for such a recent score. True, it's probably down to availability of elements but... Whenever I listen to this, it's the Epic CD I play.

Batman Disc 1 suffers from similar element issues.

And, frankly, Star Trek V sounds flat and lifeless. No worse than the original CD, but no better.

Okay, rant over :-)

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 5:29 AM   
 By:   Marlene   (Member)

Actually I did notice the volume levels of Superman Returns...i cant remember which but there is a couple of tracks where I question whether or not the volume was cranked up. They were somewhat quieter tracks too.
It wasn't a irritating to me though, but I sure did notice it.


I didn´t want to answer in this thread anymore after LLL posted the picture from 'Chinatown' which I took as not being taken serious.

Well, here I go... there actually are many pieces where peaks are crushed. Now this wouldn´t bother me at all if it would have been done right. The original release had brickwall limiting too; it wasn´t THAT audible though. And here it´s very, very audible.

Then dynamics are inconsistent over the whole set: some pieces are partially so soft that you can´t hear anything ('04. Homecoming - Tell Me Everything - Stars in the Sky'). Other pieces - which should be soft as well judging from orchestration and a now audible noisefloor - are almost as loud as the major action pieces ('12. Superman Scoop - Eavesdropping' springs to mind... or track 4 again where the last 30 seconds are much louder than the rest). All of this goes on and on and on...

Then four tracks are equalized differently than the rest: Tracks 23, 30, 31, 32 (more treble, less mids, more upper bass, less deep bass) are sounding brittle and tinny.

Inconsistent gain levels, badly done brickwall limiting, inconsistent EQ: it´s the worst re-master I´ve heard since 'Hook'.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 5:42 AM   
 By:   Marlene   (Member)

The last time I bothered with that everyone called me deaf and suggested that I must have defective hardware. I just praise God that there aren't usually any audible pops and crackles from clipping like you hear in some Japanese releases. I can't even listen to half of the major releases by Yoshihisa Hirano (Death Note for one) because the big choral works have insane amounts of clipping. Certain releases I just have to deal with it because that is the only thing available.

It is impossible to avoid poorly mastered orchestral work. I would never buy anything if I expected everything to sound like a Naxos release. Thankfully Intrada and Kritzerland rarely use the crazy amounts of gain and I haven't encountered anything so bad I couldn't listen to it from anything I got from La La Land.


They called you deaf and assumed you have defective hardware? For heaven's sake... I´ve often thought to myself that they must be deaf. I still remember when I got their release of 'Forever Young'. You may know that it was remixed from the multitrack elements... well, it sounds as if a child has remixed it. Reverb is so unnatural, having odd tails... back then I wondered if they monitored it on defective hardware.

And yes, Intrada and Kritzerland don´t have this crazy amount of loudness. A relief, Intrada releases are always a blind buy. For LLL this will change for me in the future, I will start to review their releases before I decide to buy them (if it´s possible without resorting to illegal means).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 5:52 AM   
 By:   Marlene   (Member)

We are enormously grateful to the labels for making these great releases happen. They have striven to produce this amazing gifts to us using the best resources available to them. That makes them great. The passion and hardwork that goes into it and not to mention the $$$ that goes into each project-we should be eternaly grateful. Sure sometimes a few things may miss their mark but not altogether. I'd rather have what we can get rather than then just not have.Got it?

Well I got it, but if no one ever pointed out the mistakes, and issues that could be avoided in future releases then nothing will ever be improved. We are lucky with most of these soundtrack labels like LLL because they very often go back and fix the mistakes!
I don't know the story, but for Superman Returns it may have been a poor engineering decision, perhaps some comments on the quality of the mastering can help them improve on the next releases.


Agreed. Well worded feedback can do wonders. But these folks are professionals and know the job well enough.


Exactly. These folks are professionals - but then why do they behave like amateurs?

I might be able to provide the answer myself: they think 'No one will notice anyway so let´s save some money on mastering.' I assume that well done mastering is expensive. I don´t know of course about rates... but let me tell you this:

If I´m able to perform a consistent, not-brickwalled, dynamically pleasing mastering in one to three days as the amateur I certainly am, then they should be able to perform that task in even less time.

Otherwise, I agree. If I start to complain and if others join in, maybe they are going to change something in the future and release things on the level of Intrada or FSM (I miss those releases). But for the time being, they are no match against them, to me they feel like the kids attempting to play with the big boys.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 6:47 AM   
 By:   La La Land Records   (Member)

We are enormously grateful to the labels for making these great releases happen. They have striven to produce this amazing gifts to us using the best resources available to them. That makes them great. The passion and hardwork that goes into it and not to mention the $$$ that goes into each project-we should be eternaly grateful. Sure sometimes a few things may miss their mark but not altogether. I'd rather have what we can get rather than then just not have.Got it?

Well I got it, but if no one ever pointed out the mistakes, and issues that could be avoided in future releases then nothing will ever be improved. We are lucky with most of these soundtrack labels like LLL because they very often go back and fix the mistakes!
I don't know the story, but for Superman Returns it may have been a poor engineering decision, perhaps some comments on the quality of the mastering can help them improve on the next releases.


Agreed. Well worded feedback can do wonders. But these folks are professionals and know the job well enough.


Exactly. These folks are professionals - but then why do they behave like amateurs?

I might be able to provide the answer myself: they think 'No one will notice anyway so let´s save some money on mastering.' I assume that well done mastering is expensive. I don´t know of course about rates... but let me tell you this:

If I´m able to perform a consistent, not-brickwalled, dynamically pleasing mastering in one to three days as the amateur I certainly am, then they should be able to perform that task in even less time.

Otherwise, I agree. If I start to complain and if others join in, maybe they are going to change something in the future and release things on the level of Intrada or FSM (I miss those releases). But for the time being, they are no match against them, to me they feel like the kids attempting to play with the big boys.


The problem here is we can't take a nameless customer such as yourself seriously. You hide behind a computer screen and spout hateful bs on labels (consistently). You are pissing and moaning about Doug Schwartz's mastering job on Superman Returns and referring to us as kids? Doug is a highly respected engineer who has more experience in this field than anyone we have ever worked with. Who do you think mastered most of the FSM releases?

Do yourself a favor and stop buying our product if it makes you that unhappy. You'll live longer. smile

MV

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 6:49 AM   
 By:   nerfTractor   (Member)

Edit: I had a post here about loudness wars, etc but that is a discussion for another day. The work of LLL is appreciated and this is a fine score.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 7:19 AM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)


The problem here is we can't take a nameless customer such as yourself seriously. You hide behind a computer screen and spout hateful bs on labels (consistently). You are pissing and moaning about Doug Schwartz's mastering job on Superman Returns and referring to us as kids? Doug is a highly respected engineer who has more experience in this field than anyone we have ever worked with. Who do you think mastered most of the FSM releases?

Do yourself a favor and stop buying our product if it makes you that unhappy. You'll live longer. smile

MV




Yep exactly. The comments " a child did this, they destroy music, no respect, I'll review the music before buying ... Illegal means " ( paraphrasing here but just scroll back up ) are flat out ridiculous... how can anyone expect that to be taken seriously?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 7:28 AM   
 By:   jwb   (Member)

LLL is more often than other labels very honest upfront if there are issues with a releases sound quality. Such as with HOOK and BATMAN (89), and others.

I could not recall any issues with Superman Returns, but then again I don't load up waveforms to see.

I am definitely a supporter of criticism, but it must be somewhat constructive.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 7:30 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Apparently this is the dude in question
https://www.facebook.com/jorn.druhmann
http://marlene-d.blogspot.com/

The obsession with Marlene Dietrich seems a bit unusual.
Granted she was a beautiful German actress but wow.

I have lots of LLL titles, the crown jewels probably ST TMP and V, Innerspace. All lovely and well done. I am eternally indebted to LLL for making CD's a reality that were dreams in my childhood. And they are all a superb quality from the sound through the liner notes.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 7:34 AM   
 By:   The Projectionist   (Member)

So let's pretend the issues don't exist just because so and so mastered it? Is this what I'm hearing here?

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 7:34 AM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

This all seems very dramatic and way over the top. If one isn't happy with the sound quality of a CD, then so be it, but to suggest that LLL are children who don't know what they're doing or are rubbing their little paws together with evil glee to fool the public is just effing ludicrous. I mean really. A little common courtesy would go along way in spite of differing opinions. Eeesh.

 
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