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Posted: |
Nov 1, 2013 - 7:55 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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Personally, I didn't really care about story elements at all Wow, that's an approach to film viewing I've never actually encountered. Really? I tend to approach many films and directors that way, especially more 'arty' fare, as one would say. Directors like Antonioni, Bergman, Godard etc. are best approached from a more intellectual/audiovisual/visceral way, IMO, more than in purely narrative terms. Directors for which style IS content and not merely the "wrapping". For me, Scott is the same, the difference being that he operates within classical Hollywood. So while there are always stories in his films, that's not my main attraction to him. Stories are really only a way to frame what he's REALLY about, IMO (even though he may not agree with that himself). It's the same with, say, Tim Burton for me. It's sort of an "experience-oriented" approach to movie watching.
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Posted: |
Nov 1, 2013 - 11:04 AM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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RoryR: Did you mean "Planet of the Apes"? It's just Rory. R is the first letter of my middle name. I had to use it because, I guess, just Rory was already taken or something. Anyway..... Yes, I'm talking about "Planet of the Apes." Saw it when it first came out, April 1968. I was only eight and it floored me. No other movie has had the same affect during the rest of my life, so it remains my favorite movie though, of course, I see its flaws and don't pretend it's better than every other Science Fiction film. 2001 is my second favorite Science Fiction film. Saw that when it first came out too, in Cinerama. So, I like my Science Fiction movies to be about something and to have some brains and a story and characters that you can care about. The frankly, in my opinion of course, lousy sequels to POTA (I think ESCAPE was the best, because it had the most intelligent and clever script next to the original) helped diminish the reputation of the original. Fox so milked the thing that by the time you get to the last, BATTLE FOR THE POTA, you're basically looking at a kid's film, and the TV series was even worse. As I was growing older and wanted more sophistication with the APES movies, the franchise instead took a nose dive into juvenilia, and that was mostly because a studio really only cares about the money. Content is a secondary concern, it seems. So, I hate sequels and the now decades long obsession in Hollywood with making sequels (and remakes and reboots) is for me the death of creativity. (RISE OF THE POTA, thankfully had some brains and wasn't half bad, but I'm not an eight-year-old anymore, so it's a different thing, and I'm not so sure DAWN is going to be as good -- because of the director.) The death of creativity in modern Hollywood is not an original thought on my part, many people feel this way, but the fan-boys (and girls, if any) here and elsewhere, they're in a totally different camp. They can't get enough of the things they love. If they like a movie it seems like it's an almost knee jerk reaction -- CAN'T WAIT FOR THE SEQUEL!!! For me, that's retarded. I'd be so much happier if the original PLANET OF THE APES never had a sequel. Why? Because it didn't require one. The story of the original movie was about it's main character and what happens to him. It wasn't about a planet of evolved apes, it was about a man on a planet of evolved apes. When that man met his destiny that was it, story over. Maybe I'm just hopelessly old-fashioned, but I believe a movie should have a self-contained story that reaches a conclusion that is satisfactory, and, just as important, characters that you care about. PROMETHEUS had none of this. The characters were all pricks who hated each other. I didn't like any of them and so I couldn't have cared less what happened to them -- and I don't go to the movies for that. The only likable character was the android, and he was just a little too weird for my tastes, so I didn't care what happened to him either. For me the movie is a mess. What was it about? It seemed too ambiguous, and there's nothing wrong with ambiguity (remember, 2001 is my second favorite movie), but ambiguity without any real thought behind it? That's crap. That's why I use so many words like "shit" and "turd" when I'm talking about PROMETHEUS. I think the movie was made by guys who weren't sure what they wanted to make or say. Ridley Scott is no Stanley Kubrick, and I'm talking on the I.Q. scale. I think Ridley Scott as a great filmmaker is a fraud. And I started this thread because of my very great annoyance with him and these stories that appear every so often that there will be a PROMETHEUS 2. For me, it's a case of "Who Cares?" I've gone on too long now, so I'll just conclude with, yet again, I don't think there will be a PROMETHEUS 2. I think the people at Fox know that Ridley Scott handed them a stinking pile of shit. They made have had a hand in it themselves. Another problem with films from the studios is too much studio interference, so maybe Scott is not entirely to blame, but I think, based on what I've read here and there, that the thought at the studio is they dodged a bullet. It wasn't a great Science Fiction movie, but at least they made money on it. It's the same case as with the awful Tim Burton/modern Fox studio version of POTA -- it made a lot of money, but it left the studio with no where to go -- and that's why the world didn't get a sequel to Burton's POTA (good for the world!) -- and that's why I think "NO!" to a PROMETHEUS sequel. Scott may have other ideas, but I strongly suspect Fox doesn't share them. But, of course, I could be wrong, but I feel so sorry for the world if I'm wrong because it just doesn't need a PROMETHEUS 2.
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Posted: |
Nov 1, 2013 - 11:50 AM
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By: |
edwzoomom
(Member)
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RoryR: Did you mean "Planet of the Apes"? It's just Rory. R is the first letter of my middle name. I had to use it because, I guess, just Rory was already taken or something. Anyway..... Yes, I'm talking about "Planet of the Apes." Saw it when it first came out, April 1968. I was only eight and it floored me. No other movie has had the same affect during the rest of my life, so it remains my favorite movie though, of course, I see its flaws and don't pretend it's better than every other Science Fiction film. 2001 is my second favorite Science Fiction film. Saw that when it first came out too, in Cinerama. So, I like my Science Fiction movies to be about something and to have some brains and a story and characters that you can care about. The frankly, in my opinion of course, lousy sequels to POTA (I think ESCAPE was the best, because it had the most intelligent and clever script next to the original) helped diminish the reputation of the original. Fox so milked the thing that by the time you get to the last, BATTLE FOR THE POTA, you're basically looking at a kid's film, and the TV series was even worse. As I was growing older and wanted more sophistication with the APES movies, the franchise instead took a nose dive into juvenilia, and that was mostly because a studio really only cares about the money. Content is a secondary concern, it seems. So, I hate sequels and the now decades long obsession in Hollywood with making sequels (and remakes and reboots) is for me the death of creativity. (RISE OF THE POTA, thankfully had some brains and wasn't half bad, but I'm not an eight-year-old anymore, so it's a different thing, and I'm not so sure DAWN is going to be as good -- because of the director.) The death of creativity in modern Hollywood is not an original thought on my part, many people feel this way, but the fan-boys (and girls, if any) here and elsewhere, they're in a totally different camp. They can't get enough of the things they love. If they like a movie it seems like it's an almost knee jerk reaction -- CAN'T WAIT FOR THE SEQUEL!!! For me, that's retarded. I'd be so much happier if the original PLANET OF THE APES never had a sequel. Why? Because it didn't require one. The story of the original movie was about it's main character and what happens to him. It wasn't about a planet of evolved apes, it was about a man on a planet of evolved apes. When that man met his destiny that was it, story over. Maybe I'm just hopelessly old-fashioned, but I believe a movie should have a self-contained story that reaches a conclusion that is satisfactory, and, just as important, characters that you care about. PROMETHEUS had none of this. The characters were all pricks who hated each other. I didn't like any of them and so I couldn't have cared less what happened to them -- and I don't go to the movies for that. The only likable character was the android, and he was just a little too weird for my tastes, so I didn't care what happened to him either. For me the movie is a mess. What was it about? It seemed too ambiguous, and there's nothing wrong with ambiguity (remember, 2001 is my second favorite movie), but ambiguity without any real thought behind it? That's crap. That's why I use so many words like "shit" and "turd" when I'm talking about PROMETHEUS. I think the movie was made by guys who weren't sure what they wanted to make or say. Ridley Scott is no Stanley Kubrick, and I'm talking on the I.Q. scale. I think Ridley Scott as a great filmmaker is a fraud. And I started this thread because of my very great annoyance with him and these stories that appear every so often that there will be a PROMETHEUS 2. For me, it's a case of "Who Cares?" I've gone on too long now, so I'll just conclude with, yet again, I don't think there will be a PROMETHEUS 2. I think the people at Fox know that Ridley Scott handed them a stinking pile of shit. They made have had a hand in it themselves. Another problem with films from the studios is too much studio interference, so maybe Scott is not entirely to blame, but I think, based on what I've read here and there, that the thought at the studio is they dodged a bullet. It wasn't a great Science Fiction movie, but at least they made money on it. It's the same case as with the awful Tim Burton/modern Fox studio version of POTA -- it made a lot of money, but it left the studio with no where to go -- and that's why the world didn't get a sequel to Burton's POTA (good for the world!) -- and that's why I think "NO!" to a PROMETHEUS sequel. Scott may have other ideas, but I strongly suspect Fox doesn't share them. But, of course, I could be wrong, but I feel so sorry for the world if I'm wrong because it just doesn't need a PROMETHEUS 2. Rory, I find your use of the word retarded to be inappropriate, unacceptable and insensitive. As someone who spent a good portion of her career working with children and adolescents with special needs, this word continues to carry a negative and destructive stigma. When I see people like you throwing it around when you cannot kind an acceptable insult, it makes my blood boil as it is boiling now. I don't care if I am labled a bleeding heart whiner, not one person with a heart can defend the careless and blatant use of this word. I also find your previous use of the word Nazi to be equally distasteful and unacceptable. You seem unable to make your point here without using 4 letter words, crude references or insensitive insults. Ugh....I need to leave it at that.
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pp312: Re: "Don't want to rubbish other people's choices, but this film seemed so absurd I'm somewhat disquieted to see so many people praising it. I know this is the film MUSIC forum, but can someone rationalise this for me so I can sleep tonight without half suspecting I've slipped into a parallel universe." Even I wrote, near the very beginning of this thread (less than 2 hours after it was started): "And what precisely does this have to do with soundtracks? Think you should have posted this among the NON-soundtracks, where it would be quite welcome." But regarding what you wrote here, you can pull out your scalpel and dissect "Prometheus" until you're giddy with what you see as your expertise in displaying its litany of flaws. But, as you've surely noticed, there are many of us who've gotten a lot of pleasure out of it and may be less inclined to nitpick it as you seem determined to do. And to what end? You didn't like it, clearly take pleasure in pointing out what you see as its flaws, and obviously have no intention of seeing a sequel. And yet there are many of us who DID enjoy it, find it impossible NOT to watch when we catch it on cable, may have bought it on DVD or Blu-ray, may have, like me, bought the big picture book and some or all of the soundtrack, and get a kick out of imagining where a sequel might take us. So don't you think it's time for you to just back off and allow those who DO like it to take pleasure in thoughts of further adventures in the frightening realm that began with Ridley Scott's "Alien"? Must you persist in bashing us for that? This is cinema, an art form, and probably the most subjective of ALL art forms. So enough already!
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pp312: I merely wanted to point out that a heck of a lot of people like that movie and it serves little purpose to keep bashing it, almost as if you want to make sure there WON'T be a sequel. Believe me, I can take criticism, but it just seemed that it had become such a cause celebre with you that you were ignoring that a lot of people had spent good money to see it and were continuing to spend money on the books and CDs and DVDs and Blu-rays that came along with it. I'll step away and try my best to ignore any further criticism of it. Didn't mean to come down so hard on you.
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pp312: Re: Ron, I can't help feeling that you're conflating my posts and Rory's. Rory has in fact been much more vitriolic in his criticism. I've made two relatively short posts, in the second of which I raised a few detailed points of criticism. That's it. Maybe you should review the thread. You are 100% correct. I had been responding to a lot that Rory had written, but then you slipped in there, and I guess I sort of lumped, wrongly, all the Prometheus-bashng to you. Sometimes it can be a challenge to figure out what each person has posted and what they are just quoting. Very sorry about that.
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pp312: Actually this was never started as a film music thread. But insofar as the music from "Prometheus," I bought, online, 4 tracks of it, 1 by Marc Streitenfeld and the 3 by Harry Gregson-Williams, which I consider to be the HEART of the film's soundtrack. Take away Gregson-Williams' music and it's mainly a lot of angst. So maybe we can move this into a discussion of the film's MUSIC! As you may recall, less than 2 hours after this stream was started, I very pointedly asked "And what precisely does this have to do with soundtracks?" "Prometheus" soundtrack anyone???
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Prometheus: 74% at Rotten Tomatoes The Counselor: 36% at Rotten Tomatoes That means there's a good chance The Counselor is Scott's first good movie in 30 years! Alex
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Double post
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