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But imagine how many would sell at reasonable prices, like $75? A ton of them. The demand is there for these releases. They just need to release the damned things!
Schiffy's point is that just because someone lists something for $400 doesn't mean that it's actually *selling* for that much.
I'm sure that most of the demand was there when the original complete recordings came out. For $75 each or $225 for all three films, that's a specialty item if I ever heard of one, so there may not be that much demand. (How many hundreds of people - we're probably talking in the hundreds - still want them?) Perhaps as Schiffy noted, they could put it out in a more conventional 3-4 CD case without the liner notes and save some $$ on the production of them. But greater minds than I will make that decision.
I waited a few years after they came out and got each of them in the $50 range, and I'm thankful - they're one of the crown jewels of my collection. But I agree, I wish they were available for all who want them.
Many have sold for between $200-$400. Just look on eBay. The last TTT CR sold on eBay went for $270. And you guys are telling me they wouldn't sell a ton of these at $75? Please. The demand is there.
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But is the demand worth the administrative and manufacturing cost? Not to mention if they had to redesign the packaging, the cost for that, etc.
Yeah, I mean...making stuff is hard. Why manufacture any CD, right? Who cares.
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You're missing the point. There's an expense to releasing it, and those in charge -- and this is a "major" record label remember -- may not consider it worth the return on investment.
If FSM can sell the Superman Anthology for what was it, $150, with 8 CD's and a hardcover booklet and sell out a few times, then a major record label with their capabilities can release a 4CD/1DVD-A release for half that and surely make a pretty penny, especially considering the prestige notoriety of the franchise and popularity. And this requires much less work than that Superman release. These already existed. It's just a matter of pressing the damn discs and making the cases. This isn't rocket science and I don't understand why you guys are acting like this is some insurmountable hurdle. They're a record company. This is what they do and they're more than capable of producing this set and releasing it for an amount that people will definitely pay for while they can make a tidy profit.
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If FSM can sell the Superman Anthology for what was it, $150, with 8 CD's and a hardcover booklet and sell out a few times, then a major record label with their capabilities can release a 4CD/1DVD-A release for half that and surely make a pretty penny, especially considering the prestige notoriety of the franchise and popularity. And this requires much less work than that Superman release. These already existed. It's just a matter of pressing the damn discs and making the cases. This isn't rocket science and I don't understand why you guys are acting like this is some insurmountable hurdle. They're a record company. This is what they do and they're more than capable of producing this set and releasing it for an amount that people will definitely pay for while they can make a tidy profit.
Are they?
Scale is a factor here. You're comparing a box set from a niche boutique label to one put out into general release by Reprise Records. The expectations of return are completely different.
How many copies do you suggest Reprise reprint? What demand do you think is there? Just because four or five sets sold for exorbitant prices on eBay doesn't mean that Reprise would or should see that as representative of a massive demand for a set, that only means that there are four or five aficionados with money to spend.
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If FSM can sell the Superman Anthology for what was it, $150, with 8 CD's and a hardcover booklet and sell out a few times, then a major record label with their capabilities can release a 4CD/1DVD-A release for half that and surely make a pretty penny, especially considering the prestige notoriety of the franchise and popularity. And this requires much less work than that Superman release. These already existed. It's just a matter of pressing the damn discs and making the cases. This isn't rocket science and I don't understand why you guys are acting like this is some insurmountable hurdle. They're a record company. This is what they do and they're more than capable of producing this set and releasing it for an amount that people will definitely pay for while they can make a tidy profit.
Are they?
Scale is a factor here. You're comparing a box set from a niche boutique label to one put out into general release by Reprise Records. The expectations of return are completely different.
How many copies do you suggest Reprise reprint? What demand do you think is there? Just because four or five sets sold for exorbitant prices on eBay doesn't mean that Reprise would or should see that as representative of a massive demand for a set, that only means that there are four or five aficionados with money to spend.
Then sell the rights to Varese or FSM to re-release this. A 3,000 to 5,000 limited edition run would sell out fast at $75. If some people are willing to spend $200-$300 on this set, then everyone who wants it would buy this for $75 easy because that's a reasonable price for the content. And it's not like the packaging is all that ridiculous or anything. They had no problem with the deluxe editions of The Hobbit films with deluxe packaging. It's cardboard and paper packaging, not steel or leather.
I don't understand why you guys keep making excuses for their to not be at the very least a limited edition run of these releases. There's no excuse for these versions of three of the most iconic and popular scores that are a part of a huge fanbase to not be made available.
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If FSM can sell the Superman Anthology for what was it, $150, with 8 CD's and a hardcover booklet and sell out a few times, then a major record label with their capabilities can release a 4CD/1DVD-A release for half that and surely make a pretty penny, especially considering the prestige notoriety of the franchise and popularity. And this requires much less work than that Superman release. These already existed. It's just a matter of pressing the damn discs and making the cases. This isn't rocket science and I don't understand why you guys are acting like this is some insurmountable hurdle. They're a record company. This is what they do and they're more than capable of producing this set and releasing it for an amount that people will definitely pay for while they can make a tidy profit.
I'm sorry, but you're just not listening. Producing a film score album is not, by a long shot, a straightforward process. You may not be aware, or remember, but Lukas Kendall closed the FSM label because, among other things, he'd grown tired of the difficulty of dealing with all the different entities (composers, artists, record labels, film studios, etc) who become involved in producing and releasing of the music. Worse, every single release is different, and each requires a fresh round, or rounds, of negotiations.
To get an idea of what's involved, I point you to this interview with Lukas:
http://www.colonnesonore.net/contenuti-speciali/interviste/2517-qits-all-in-the-film-musicq-interview-with-lukas-kendall-film-score-monthly-part-1.html
Until you've actually worked in this business, or have spent time listening to the people that DO, you really have no idea of the complexity of the task.
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Posted: |
Oct 25, 2016 - 11:11 PM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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I don't understand why you guys keep making excuses for their to not be at the very least a limited edition run of these releases. There's no excuse for these versions of three of the most iconic and popular scores that are a part of a huge fanbase to not be made available.
What you call "excuses" we call "reasons." I checked out some (not all) of the eBay auctions you speak of, and yes, some sold for a couple hundred dollars, while others sold in the $70 range. But if you look, you'll also see that while some had nearly twenty bids, those bids were from four to six bidders (most of whom got out after the prices rose), and some of those bidders duplicated across auctions. (Meanwhile, many copies are sitting unsold for high Buy It Now prices.)
None of this is evidence that thousands and thousands of people are yearning for these. I don't know what the demand is, nor do you, and an echo chamber like this board is not enlightening. But you know who does know how sales went on these sets? Reprise Records. They know how many sold, and what the drop-off was after the initial releases. So while you assume they're too clueless to realize they're sitting on a big money-earner, they may just know better. Because they also know how many of these sets they have to be able to move to make it worth it.
All that said… maybe there's a new batch right around the corner. But if there isn't, don't assume it's because the label is failing to do so out of stupidity.
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All that said… maybe there's a new batch right around the corner. But if there isn't, don't assume it's because the label is failing to do so out of stupidity.
It's always best to assume this.
Sony has no problem releasing the Star Wars soundtracks every few years it seems with the same old discs, just new packaging. LOTR is second to Star Wars, I would say, among franchise score recognition and popularity. There is absolutely no reason why a major record label can not make these made available to thousands of fans who want to purchase them.
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Schiffy wrote:
All that said… maybe there's a new batch right around the corner. But if there isn't, don't assume it's because the label is failing to do so out of stupidity.
Then SalaciousAckbar replied:
It's always best to assume this.
Sony has no problem releasing the Star Wars soundtracks every few years it seems with the same old discs, just new packaging. LOTR is second to Star Wars, I would say, among franchise score recognition and popularity. There is absolutely no reason why a major record label can not make these made available to thousands of fans who want to purchase them.
I'm sorry, but just what industry experience do you have for making this (rather insulting) claim?
When album producers like Lukas Kendall say that film score re-releases are, in general, very complicated undertakings, and when Doug Adams, who's directly involved in trying to get these particular scores re-released, lists the different entities who all have to, separately, give their approval (as quoted by Wedge on page one of this thread) then, to be blunt, who the hell do you think you are to just ignore them, and everybody else that DOES know what's going on, and call them, and us, stupid and ignorant?
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LOTR is second to Star Wars, I would say, among franchise score recognition and popularity.
Aha! And here we have the kernel of the misconception.
Yes, LOTR is very popular, but it is also receding in the public memory, whilst Star Wars is still very present.
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All that said… maybe there's a new batch right around the corner. But if there isn't, don't assume it's because the label is failing to do so out of stupidity.
It's always best to assume this.
Sony has no problem releasing the Star Wars soundtracks every few years it seems with the same old discs, just new packaging. LOTR is second to Star Wars, I would say, among franchise score recognition and popularity. There is absolutely no reason why a major record label can not make these made available to thousands of fans who want to purchase them.
The difference being that those SW re-releases always happen when a new SW comes out.
Another difference is that the normal LoTR soundtrack albums are still widely available and those are sufficient for most people. I really doubt thousands of fans are waiting for the complete recordings to be re-released.
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Posted: |
Oct 26, 2016 - 10:12 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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don't assume it's because the label is failing to do so out of stupidity.
It's always best to assume this.
Well, if the crux of your argument is that you know better because you know better, then there is little room for debate here.
Sony has no problem releasing the Star Wars soundtracks every few years it seems with the same old discs, just new packaging. LOTR is second to Star Wars, I would say, among franchise score recognition and popularity.
If it is second (and I'm not sure it is), it is, in my estimation, a very, very distant second. (Everybody I know can hum the "Star Wars" theme, and recognize at least four melodies from that saga. I don't know anybody who can hum a "Rings" theme, and only a few who might recognize the opening Ring theme if they heard it.) Additionally, those "Star Wars" soundtracks are very basic repressings in standard jewel cases. Not true of the "Rings" sets (though perhaps they could be reissued that way).
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LOTR is second to Star Wars, I would say, among franchise score recognition and popularity.
Aha! And here we have the kernel of the misconception.
Yes, LOTR is very popular, but it is also receding in the public memory, whilst Star Wars is still very present.
Yeah, the Lord of the Rings trilogy didn't have an entire trilogy of prequels, each grossing around $1 billion, in the last few years. No, that didn't happen at all. The reason these don't exist is laziness and incompetence on the part of the labels. Pure and simple. These little no-name films get deluxe edition scores released by small labels, whilst these recordings just sit around waiting to be released to an eager fanbase.
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