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The next in the series seems likely to be The Chairman sometimes in 2013 as suggested here:
http://www.jerrygoldsmithonline.com/news.htm
I think the phrase, "The release is the first in a series of new re-recordings of Jerry Goldsmith film scores that should include The Chairman in 2013" is a statement of OPINION, not FACT (or even PROBABILITY). That's not to say that THE CHAIRMAN wouldn't be a wonderful idea ... In these wonderful days, everything seems possible!
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Posted: |
Dec 2, 2012 - 6:47 PM
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By: |
Anteeru
(Member)
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Just some months ago I compiled my own complete edition of Lionheart. I assume it's complete, don't know whether Varése issues Classic Symphonic Score plus Vol.2 feature ALL music that was written for the film. From my recollection of the movie, they do and I just managed to get the whole score on one CD running 79:32 minutes. My knowledge about the troubled recording sessions is far from complete, but as far as I can remember hearing from rumors, Goldsmith inserted several synths just to overplay the 'unsteady' performance by the orchestra. If that would result in a Reconstruction/ReRecording that downplays the synthetical elements that unneccessarily age the score, this could my biggest wish probably. I find the score in its totality to be a very enjoyable musical experience plus it just fits on one CD so why not rerecording the whole thing?
But here the very admirable endevour by Tadlow raises some questions about how truthfull a rerecording could or would be to the original score regarding synths and other rather exotical sounds employed by Goldsmith. If Tadlow, for example, just left out what the composer simply intended to be a big part of the music, ergo Lionheart's synths turned to be exactly what Goldsmith wanted, I would not prefer a synthless version, probably just out of something you could solemnly call respect for the artists integrity, him being the artist with the creative sovereignty over his work. Yet, as we all know, his sovereignty was lost as soon as a movie executive entered the room with wet feet and without knocking, but especially because of these folks tormenting composers day in day out, the fans, admirers, true friends of film music shouldn't just make their own too customized wishlists.
Another question would concern the mimicing of Goldsmiths original synthetic / wacky sounds. I see some labour coming towards the folks of Tadlow to just match the sometimes very distinct, or even improvised sounds of Goldsmiths musical choices.
Greets,
Anteeru
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It really wouldn't be a good idea to have big name conductors conducting old film scores. They don't so much conduct as interpret. These guys with their massive egos would decide that what you heard in the film was all wrong. The tempo & orchestration would change as they put their personal stamp on it. I know Andre Previn wasn't guilty of this, but he was poacher turned gamekeeper.
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Well personally, I hate Andre Previn's Korngold disc and I LOVE Esa-Pekka Salonen's Herrmann disc...
Yavar
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It really wouldn't be a good idea to have big name conductors conducting old film scores. They don't so much conduct as interpret. These guys with their massive egos would decide that what you heard in the film was all wrong. The tempo & orchestration would change as they put their personal stamp on it. I know Andre Previn wasn't guilty of this, but he was poacher turned gamekeeper.
Oh wow!
This is a classic example of ARROGANT FANBOY THINKING at it's worst if there was ever one.
The Film Tempo is just that THE FILM TEMPO.
When you remove it from the movie for a concert performance it becomes a very different animal. Conductor may speed it up, slow it down brings out aspects of a piece that were pushed back for the film, but are there on the written page.
They can see a piece from a very different angle then a film producer might on MUSICIAL TERMS.
Bernard Herrmann very often stated that the tempo for the film wasn't what he always wanted and his recordings which in some cases he paid for and conducted reflect that.
John Williams alters the tempo of these pieces quite often in concert to be slower than the film version's or made some pretty interesting edits and alternations to the orchestrations.
Music is MUSIC, I've heard some great conductors get amazing performances out of an orchestra of a wide range of film scores in concert that are quite DIFFERENT from the film recordings.
Music should live and Breathe and be interpreted by different musicians and conductors.
Variety is after all the spice of life now isn't it?
Ford A. Thaxton
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Well personally, I hate Andre Previn's Korngold disc and I LOVE Esa-Pekka Salonen's Herrmann disc...
Yavar
I agree, Esa-Pekka Salonen's Herrmann disc is nothing short of a GREAT ALBUM, period.
As far as I'm concerned, it contains some of the best performances of those pieces I've ever heard INCLUDING the soundtrack recoridngs.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Damn straight. Only complaint I have is that it's too short and he never followed it up with a volume 2!
Similar feelings about the (admittedly different) Yo-Yo Ma/Morricone album -- so many more great Morricone themes to mine for rearrangement!
Yavar
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Damn straight. Only complaint I have is that it's too short and he never followed it up with a volume 2!
Similar feelings about the (admittedly different) Yo-Yo Ma/Morricone album -- so many more great Morricone themes to mine for rearrangement!
Yavar
Couldn't agree more.
Yo-Yo Ma and Morricone hit one out of the ballpark on that one.
If anyone who reads this hasn't got this recording, stop what yuo are doing and get it.
You'll be richly rewarded.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Oh wow!
This is a classic example of ARROGANT FANBOY THINKING at it's worst if there was ever one.
Don't think you need to be so harsh on him Ford; I think there are many high-profile classical conductors where his comments would certainly apply in a negative way, but you certainly can't dismiss them all in a blanket statement.
The Film Tempo is just that THE FILM TEMPO.
I for one will be hoping that for this new Goldsmith series that the film tempos are adhered to -- from what I've heard of Hour of the Gun this looks to be the case! I would point out that for my favorite Goldsmith re-recording (and the only one I really love), Rio Conchos for Intrada, Goldsmith himself was fairly faithful to the film tempos even though the sound and performance otherwise have very noticeable differences...
When you remove it from the movie for a concert performance it becomes a very different animal. Conductor may speed it up, slow it down brings out aspects of a piece that were pushed back for the film, but are there on the written page.
They can see a piece from a very different angle then a film producer might on MUSICIAL TERMS.
Bernard Herrmann very often stated that the tempo for the film wasn't what he always wanted and his recordings which in some cases he paid for and conducted reflect that.
John Williams alters the tempo of these pieces quite often in concert to be slower than the film version's or made some pretty interesting edits and alternations to the orchestrations.
I really don't care for Herrmann's re-recording tempos at all, and have downright HATED some of Williams' concert versions (not just of his own music; whether he or someone else is responsible, tacking on that conclusive happy flourish for the North by Northwest main title was an AWFUL idea).
Music is MUSIC, I've heard some great conductors get amazing performances out of an orchestra of a wide range of film scores in concert that are quite DIFFERENT from the film recordings.
Music should live and Breathe and be interpreted by different musicians and conductors.
Variety is after all the spice of life now isn't it?
I agree with all of your points here and if we had the luxury of multiple recordings of our favorite film scores I'd be all for changing it up more...but if there's a case here like Hour of the Gun where this is the *only* representation on album of the complete score...well I want one that's as faithful to the original as possible.
Wouldn't you?
Yavar
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Posted: |
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:57 AM
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By: |
TerraEpon
(Member)
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Ford is right but as usual a bit over dramatic. One thing to consider, I think, is that the music IS written to a film and thus the film tempo is what the composer has in mind when writing it -- not always true, but usually. So the music itself usually works that way.
I for one don't like most of the Herrmann Decca recordings because the music is really slow at points, but the braodness works well for, say, Spellbound on Intrada (and most people seem to hold the opposite view).
But certainly classical music has the exact same issue. Often the composer will specifically note a tempo mark, and some conductors will go WAY off the mark -- and there are times (Holst's Jupiter comes to mind) where it works a lot better at a different tempo. And everyone has their own opinion as to what's good or not.
But I find people saying that 'the original is the only right one' never make sense, because as Ford says, it's MUSIC, it needs to 'live and breath' and keeping some higher power OST as the be all makes it less about the music and more about the movie it accompanies, it seems.
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