Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 5:30 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

The only Vistavision films shown horizontally were:

"White Christmas"
"Strategic Air Command"
"To Catch a Thief"
"Pursuit of the Graf Spee"



THE COURT JESTER also played in horizontal vistaVision---at the New York Paramount, where I saw it in 1955. It was spectacular!


Back in the 1980s when I did some research with people who worked at Paramount Studios in the 1950s, especially a fellow who worked at the Technicolor lab in Hollywood where IB printing was done, only two to three horizontal prints were struck of a handful of Vistavision-shot features.

It seems initially Paramount Studios only sent out horizontal prints for previews and press screenings. Some features continued to be projected horizontally such as "White Christmas" and "Strategic Air Command" but only for a few weeks. After that they switched over to conventional 35mm.

The big problem with projecting horizontally was the print ran at 180 feet per minute instead of 90. That meant the normal 2000' reel had to double to 4,000' producing heftier reels. The projectionist local had negotiated an agreement to have two projectionists in a booth to handle the weight of 70mm reels so I must assume they made similar demands with horizontal Vistavision.

An interesting note. Films shown horizontally had the feed reel on the bottom and the take-up reel on the top.

Since the speed was doubled, the, optical soundtrack gained a better frequency response.

Boston Light & Sound owns the two Century horizontal projectors once installed at the New York Paramount Theater.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 6:03 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

.....Add the Hollywood Paramount to your horizontal vistaVision projectors list, too, Ed. Apparently at least STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND and TO CATCH A THIEF played there in horizontal VV.

I doubt it. "Strategic Air Command" played horizontally at The Stanley-Warner Theatre in Beverly Hills which is the only theater in Southern California to be officially listed as having horizontal projectors. Sadly, many years ago that great theater was demolished, replaced by a parking lot.

Doing more research I discovered the Imperial Theater in Toronto was equipped with two Century horizontal projectors.

Martin Scorsese swears he saw a horizontal print of "The Searchers" at the Paramount in New York City. The film played in LA only in conventional 35mm. I doubt he saw a horizontal print.

Paramount Studios went with Vistavision instead of Cinemascope because they any theater could run a Vistavision film without needing to upgrade their equipment. So it stands to reason they wouldn't demand theaters install two expensive horizontal projectors.

I believe the only reason for the handful of horizontal presentations was to sell the format's increased sharpness and lack of grain. Once the industry accepted the format, they'd issue mainly conventional prints.

The Hollywood Paramount (now Disney's El Capitan) is where I saw "House of Wax" in 3D in 1953. The special Natural Vision quad projector setup remained there until at least 1955. The projectors could also be operated independently for conventional projection. "Bwana Devil" also played in 3D at that theater. Today the El Capitan only uses digital projectors. No film.

The first feature to be shown in 70mm at the Hollywood Paramount was "The Fall Of The Roman Empire" in 1964 which was a reserved seat engagement. That's where I saw the film in 70 as well as "Where Eagles Dare" and "MacKenna's Gold."

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 8:10 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

..........Add the Hollywood Paramount to your horizontal vistaVision projectors list, too, Ed. Apparently at least STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND and TO CATCH A THIEF played there in horizontal VV.

I doubt it. "Strategic Air Command" played horizontally at The Stanley-Warner Theatre in Beverly Hills which is the only theater in Southern California to be officially listed as having horizontal projectors. Sadly, many years ago that great theater was demolished, replaced by a parking lot.

The Hollywood Paramount (now Disney's El Capitan) is where I saw "House of Wax" in 3D in 1953. The special Natural Vision quad projector setup remained there until at least 1955. The projectors could also be operated independently for conventional projection. "Bwana Devil" also played in 3D at that theater......



OK. I've just located some newspaper sections from my collection covering the vistaVision period we're discussing, and have them in front of me.

1- First is a xerox copy of an ad from an industry trade paper of the period. It looks like it might be Motion Picture Herald from the typeface. It's a promo/ad article about the premiere of STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND at the New York Paramount Theatre, with photos of the premiere crowd and the theatre marquee. We know the New York Paramount had horizontal vistaVision projection for this engagement, and the marquee says, in big type, "Spectacular Presentation of VistaVision on the World's Largest Theatre Screen."

2- Two ads for the Los Angeles presentation of STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND. Ed is correct about this---it DID premiere at the Stanley Warner Beverly Hills Theatre and in horizontal vistaVision. The ads say, "Hear it in Perspecta Stereophonic Sound---a history making presentation in VistaVision. Live it....on one of the world's Largest Curvilinear Theatre Screens....." This is obviously mid-1950s show-biz double-speak for the non-technical audience which doesn't know what the heck horizontal vistaVision is.

3- An ad for TO CATCH A THIEF opening at the Hollywood Paramount Theatre in Los Angeles in August 1955. This ad says, "Hear it in Perspecta Stereophonic Sound and See It Now on our big New Curvilinear Screen!"

4- Surprise! Surprise! An ad for THE SEVEN LITTLE FOYS at the Hollywood Paramount Theatre in Los Angeles, opening in June, 1955. This ad says, "Hear it in Perspecta Stereophonic Sound and See It on our big New Curvilinear Screen!"

5- Several ads for other vistaVision films opening in Los Angeles in the same period. RUN FOR COVER, playing at the Orpheum-Downtown and Hollywood-Hollywood and other chain runs, WE'RE NO ANGELS, playing exclusively at the Egyptian-Hollywood, and THE FAR HORIZONS, playing at the Orpheum-Downtown, the Vogue-Hollywood, and the Picwood-Westwood and selected drive-ins. None of these engagements make mention of Perspecta or Curvilinear Screens and we can pretty safely assume they are all standard 35mm vistaVision prints.

6- I also pulled two sheets referring to the WHITE CHRISTMAS and TEN COMMANDMENTS engagements in Los Angeles. WHITE CHRISTMAS premiered at the Stanley Warner-Beverly Hills and added the Paramount-Downtown to its playdates the next day. Neither makes mention of anything unusual about the screening presentation. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS played its exclusive hard-ticket roadshow engagement at the Stanley Warner-Beverly Hills in 1956, and, again, nothing unusual is mentioned about the form of its presentation.


In terms of all this, I think we can deduce that, sometime after its normal screening of WHITE CHRISTMAS in 1954, the Stanley Warner added horizontal vistaVision and Perspecta Sound to its booth for the STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND presentation in April, 1955, combined with a newer and larger screen. At a short time after that (in mid-1955) the Paramount-Hollywood also added horizontal vistaVision to its booth, as well as a new, larger screen on the stage, so that it could show THE SEVEN LITTLE FOYS starting in June, 1955. My personal impression is that by 1956, the Stanley Warner did NOT run THE TEN COMMANDMENTS in horizontal vistaVision, so those projectors may well have been shipped over to the Paramount-Hollywood (Paramount's flagship house) to enable the SEVEN LITTLE FOYS and TO CATCH A THIEF presentations earlier. Or Paramount may have rustled up a couple of projectors from somewhere else for these screenings at the Paramount-Hollywood, one of their key US theaters.

Until strong negative proof otherwise develops, I'm going to believe that the Stanley Warner AND the Paramount Hollywood, simultaneously or independently, provided horizontal vistaVision engagements in Los Angeles during this exciting mid-'50s period.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 8:27 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

3- An ad for TO CATCH A THIEF at the Hollywood Paramount Theatre in Los Angeles. This ad says, "Hear it in Perspecta Stereophonic Sound and See It Now on our big New Curvilinear Screen!"

4- Surprise! Surprise! An ad for THE SEVEN LITTLE FOYS at the Hollywood Paramount Theatre in Los Angeles. This ad says, "Hear it in Perspecta Stereophonic Sound and See It on our big New Curvilinear Screen!"


The mention of a "New Curvilinear Screen" doesn't mean the films were shown horizontally. I have a book on wide screen processes from the 1950s that mentions Paramount's recommendation to theater owners of installing this screen which they claimed was better for projecting any widescreen format. In fact, for a while Paramount refused to allow any of the Vistavision films to be exhibited in a theater using Cinemascope's Miracle Mirror curved screen. So much was the animosity against the Fox anamorphic wide screen process that it ended up with Paramount making demands of exhibitors that could not be met. Eventually, Paramount Vistavision prints played in theaters using a Cinemascope curved screen. With the wide screen format wars it was Cinemascope that became the most widely used process eventually to be replaced by Panavision.

Just about every Paramount and MGM Vistavision feature had Perspecta Sound encoded into the mono optical track. The theater would need a Perspecta decoder as well as a multi-channel sound system with three speakers behind the screen along with auditorium surrounds.

By 1956, Paramount stopped issuing horizontal prints which is why "The Ten Commandments" played off a conventional 35mm Technicolor IB print. It also was shown with Perspecta Sound at key reserved seat engagements.

I used to know a film collector who lived in Hollywood who in his home had the ability to project 35mm films with Perspecta. It sounded awful. Mono sounds would be channeled around. Sometimes a sound effect would come form one side of the screen which when music was playing would cause the music to switch to that side. Very disconcerting.

FYI

The two Century VistaVision projectors installed at the Warner Beverly were removed in 1957. They were replaced by two Norelco DP-70s. Also in the large booth were two Simplex 35mm XLs equpped with mag 'penthouses' to play back 4-track magnetically striped prints.

The irony here is the Warner Beverly didn't show their first 70mm film until 1962 when "Lawrence of Arabia" ran there in a reserved seat engagement.

When Todd-AO's "Around the World in 80 Days" ran over its intended scheduled reserve seat engagement, it precluded MGM from presenting their first 65mm-shot feature "Raintree County" in 70mm in Los Angeles. In 1957 only the Carthay Circle Theater in Los Angeles and the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood were equipped to show 70mm. So a push was made to have more theaters install 70mm equipment.


The now demolished Warner Beverly Theater:

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 8:49 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....The mention of a "New Curvilinear Screen" doesn't mean the films were shown horizontally......


It doesn't mean that they were not, either.

I'm surprised you're essentially denying the studio's logic in running either of these films---top Paramount product---in horizontal vistaVision---in Hollywood---the home of Paramount Studios, the home of Hollywood's technicians, the home of Technicolor's lab where the prints could be easily made, and particularly at a time when Paramount was convinced of the efficacy of its process over CinemaScope and wanted to convince others in the local industry.

Incidentally, I have all those film techique history books you have, too, but they aren't a real substitute for actually being there and experiencing these things---as you well know.

Ed.....you have a considerable amount of knowledge---you have contributed some fascinating posts to this forum---and I can learn from you.

But YOU can also learn from ME.

Let's not set ourselves up as adversaries.

We can agree to disagree on this point---generously. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 9:23 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

I just discovered some interesting info on a theater forum discussing horizontal projection of Vistavision. After someone mentioned horizontal projectors were installed at the Radio City Music Hall for the premier of Paramount's "White Christmas," someone added the following info:

The machines we had at Radio City were installed just for that premiere, and taken out after the run. They didn't have soundheads on them, so they were interlocked with the end two 35mm machines. According to Ben Olevsky, who was head projectionist at the time, they almost didn't use them and then decided the picture looked so good they had to. He said you could hear them running when you got on the Executive elevator and it reached the 2nd Mezzanine. Since they were outside the main booth in spotlight booths, the spot ports which were open had to be draped with duveteen to quiet the projector noise during the feature.

And I found the following at 70mm.com:

Horizontal projection was seen in England the following year during June 1955, when a pair of Century horizontal projectors were installed at the Plaza, of Piccadilly Circus in London, to show Paramount's "Strategic Air Command" on a 43 by 23 foot screen.

So it appears one theater in England was equipped to show Vistavision horizontally. It used horizontal projectors built by British Gaumont-Kalee.

Doing more research I believe only "White Christmas" played horizontally at the Radio City Music Hall. Those projectors were removed after the film finished its run. The Paramount Theater in New York showed at least two Paramount Vistavision features horizontally before yanking the projectors.

By late 1955 a decision was made to cease all horizontal prints since they had to be made suing Eastman color print stock which didn't compare favorably with the Technicolor dye-transfer system which was used for Vistavision reduction prints. Tests were made between the two print formats which revealed the reduction IB prints had better color saturation. The increased image sharpness and better sound coming from horizontal prints wasn't deemed cost-effective so it was dropped.

And so far no documentation lists the Hollywood Paramount having horizontal projection capability.

I did find this on a tech forum:


The following theaters introduced horizontal Vistavision (sound-on-film) with "Strategic Air Command"...

Paramount (New York City)-This theater had six projectors in the booth at this time: three horizontal VV Century projectors and three Simplex XL's for Cinemascope-whew! Screen 36 by 65 feet.
Stanley Warner (Hollywood)-4/28/55
Stanley (Philadelphia)-5/5/55
Saenger (New Orleans)-5/6/55
Capitol (Washington D.C.) 5/12/55
State-Lake (Chicago) 5/12/55
Imperial (Toronto) 5/12/55
Penn (Pittsburgh, PA) 5/19/55

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 9:58 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

I'm surprised you're essentially denying the studio's logic in running either of these films---top Paramount product---in horizontal vistaVision---in Hollywood---the home of Paramount Studios, the home of Hollywood's technicians, the home of Technicolor's lab where the prints could be easily made, and particularly at a time when Paramount was convinced of the efficacy of its process over CinemaScope and wanted to convince others in the local industry.

Well, Hollywood was and still is more of name coined to describe the location of the entire film industry. Hollywood is not a real self-incorporated city. MGM was housed in Culver City, but still stated on their end title credit that the film was produced in Hollywood. 20th Century Fox's main studio was and still is in West Los Angeles (now Century City). Republic was located in Studio City. Warner Brothers and Walt Disney were and still are in Burbank.

One of the most prestigious theaters was the Fox Carthay Circle Theater in Los Angeles.

Most of the studio moguls lived well outside of Hollywood favoring the posh surroundings of Beverly Hills, Holmby Hills and Brentwood so I doubt they'd demand a theater in Hollywood be equipped for horizontal projection. But the Warner Beverly Hills which was closer was equipped.

But more importantly, by the mid-1950s, Paramount execs decided to drop horizontal projection. I saw "The Man Who Knew Too Much" first run at the Hollywood Paramount and can say without reservation that it was shown in conventional 35mm Technicolor. Had it been shown horizontally the sound would have been striking since the film would have ran at 180 fps. I distinctly remember the sound not being spectacular in any respect. This is something that bugged me about Paramount films. Their music tended to sound either muffled or worse, shrill. After enjoying the wonderful realistic sound that came from magnetic stereo, when it came to features made by Paramount, their tracks sounded lousy.

In talking with a film historian I know, he believes the two horizontal projectors installed at the Warner Beverly were pulled sometime in 1955 and then stored somewhere. He feels only "Strategic Air Command" played horizontally in Los Angeles.

Back to the Paramount Hollywood. "Gunfight at the OK Corral" (1957) played there first run and not using a horizontal print. I know since I saw the film there not once, but three times! I loved the Tiomkin's score. They ran a Technicolor IB print which had vivid colors not obtainable back then with Eastman color print stock which had to be used with horizontal prints.

Finally, by the 1950s the Hollywood Paramount Theater was no longer owned by Paramount Pictures. The 1948 anti-trust ruling that ordered studios to divest themselves of theater chains meant the Hollywood Paramount could show any film from any studio. They ran Warner's "House of Wax" in 3D. Over the years I saw lots of films there from many studios. So Paramount Studios could not force the Hollywood Paramount to install horizontal projectors. The irony here was the Warner Beverly Hills got the installation.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2010 - 1:45 AM   
 By:   mulan98   (Member)

I'm finding the debate above absolutely fascinating and I'm grateful to the contributors.

The actual introduction of Cinerama, CinemaScope and VistaVision were just a little bit before my time as a young cinemagoer but I've always been in thrall of the large screen processes.

I'm guessing that VistaVision horizontal projection would have been a little similar to Imax but with the infinately better presentation that could be provided by a top quality movie theatre.

Incidentally.I may have missed something here but did THE TEN COMANDMENTS really never get shown horizontally? I'd have thought that C.B. would have been insistant for it's premier engagements.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2010 - 2:36 AM   
 By:   jamesnobel   (Member)

Sure..... I can learn some things from Ed and Manderlay.

But both of THEM can learn just about everything from ME!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2010 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

Incidentally.I may have missed something here but did THE TEN COMANDMENTS really never get shown horizontally? I'd have thought that C.B. would have been insistant for it's premier engagements.

By 1956, Paramount had dropped the idea of making horizontal prints. The only exception was the short "Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot" (1957) which ran in two specially built theaters in Colonial Williamsburg. It was the longest running engagement of a Vistavision-shot film projected horizontally. The film is still shown, only today it's projected digitally.

A frame from the horizontal release print showing the magnetic stripes that contained the six-track stereophonic sound mix:




The Patriot theaters and the film were converted to standard 70mm in the late 1960s. The VistaVision projectors were sold to ILM and have been used since in special effects operations. Within the last few years the Patriot Theaters now run the film projected digitally.


A trade ad regarding the premier of "Strategic Air Command" at the Warner Beverly Theater"



A Kalee Vistavision horizontal projector (notice the steep angle of projection which caused a phenomenon called keystoning):




Another view of the British made Kalee (notice the 4,000 ft. enclosed reel magazines):





Here's a bit of trivia I'm sure hardly anyone knows about.

When Cecil B. DeMIlle was prepping "The Greatest Show on Earth" he discovered that Loren Ryder was working on a widescreen process that would later be called Vistavision. DeMille ordered tests be done so some footage of the Ringling Brothers winter facility in Sarasota Florida was photographed using a "lazy 8" camera, the term Paramount technicians used for the horizontal 8 perforation per frame camera. Those tests ended up in the Paramount film library. DeMille decided that because photographing horizontally would preclude the use of three strip Technicolor in photography, he made the decision to film the circus extravaganza in three-strip Technicolor.

A frame from the test:




An example of a horizontal Vistavision print, this one from "Battle of River Plate" (aka "Pursuit of the Graf Spee"):

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Poor George. A rare discussion of his music emerges, and it turns out that people are more interested in debating what projector they used in some theater on Hollywood Boulevard in 1954!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 8:44 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

Poor George. A rare discussion of his music emerges, and it turns out that people are more interested in debating what projector they used in some theater on Hollywood Boulevard in 1954!

Exactly. Much as I have loved the discussion..I think it got a wee bit side-tracked? I had hoped someone might notice my veiled pley for help searching for PRIDE AND PASSION and QUO VADIS scores......

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

And how's the search for THE WARLORD going?

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 9:20 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

And how's the search for THE WARLORD going?

Yavar


One thing at a time....got 4 other scores lined up first....

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)


One thing at a time....got 4 other scores lined up first....


Wow, that's awesome, James. At one point it was looking as if you were going to do just a few more "musts" and then call it quits because you didn't think anything else would have a big enough draw. I'm so glad you're going to keep going with your excellent re-recording series well into the future. After all, *somebody* has got to keep MorgBonnStrom's game up and it sure as heck doesn't look like it's going to be Varese or Intrada any more...

Are any of those four other scores for Prometheus (or another label) like The Alamo was, or are they all for Tadlow?

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

If his next projects turn out to be as good as what he achieved with "The Alamo," I will be VERY HAPPY!

I'm probably going out on a limb here but here goes anyway. It's the finest redo of any film score I've ever heard. Simply brilliant! The Big T would be very pleased.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 2:00 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

If his next projects turn out to be as good as what he achieved with "The Alamo," I will be VERY HAPPY!

I'm probably going out on a limb here but here goes anyway. It's the finest redo of any film score I've ever heard. Simply brilliant! The Big T would be very pleased.


I must say I was rather pleased with it. (British under-statement) After 30 years in the record business I feel I am finally getting the hang of this producing lark!!!! Although unlike others I have absolutely no idea how many albums I have produced over all these years (from scratch) as I don't keep count..... (British cynicism)

If you liked ALAMO....then LAWRENCE should please....and then certainly the one I just finished mixing today will blow you away...

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 7:19 AM   
 By:   John Morgan   (Member)

Tadlow will run out of ideas after they will have rerecorded LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and TARAS BULBA.

We have a lot of ideas for Tribute, and running out of money will come much faster than running out of ideas.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

Tadlow will run out of ideas after they will have rerecorded LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and TARAS BULBA.

We have a lot of ideas for Tribute, and running out of money will come much faster than running out of ideas.


Exactly. No shortage of ideas....just a shortage of enough sales to warrant following through on these ideas...

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2010 - 12:43 AM   
 By:   mulan98   (Member)

Poor George. A rare discussion of his music emerges, and it turns out that people are more interested in debating what projector they used in some theater on Hollywood Boulevard in 1954!

Probably my fault for which many apologies. I alluded to my interest in VistaVision in a post primarily related to the music many posts above. I am however, grateful to Manderley and Ed for the information in this regard.

Back to the score then. Am I right in thinking that the 'End Title' is not currently available on legitimate recordings?

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2024 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.
Website maintained and powered by Veraprise and Matrimont.