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 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 11:42 AM   
 By:   Vincent Bernard   (Member)



FILM MUSIC IS DEAD. LONG LIVE FILM MUSIC!


That whole diatribe is so unhinged, but it's pretty great. Haha


Sorry, I've been holding that in for a while!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 11:49 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

SECOND EDIT: You know, Thor, I wasn't going to reply to your passive-agressive bullshit but then I got to thinking… many times I've seen you bemoan the state of this board and how there are a dearth of serious film music discussion threads.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe replies like yours are part of the problem? I can tell you that, for me at least, this is one of the reasons that I don't participate more on this board.

"You revel in your misery about current times and in the 'superior scores of yesteryear', and I'll continue to enjoy the great film music from both past AND present."

Really, sir. I protest. I protest most strongly.


Geez, Vincent, why the vitriol and personal attacks?

So we have different viewpoints on the matter. So what? As I said -- that I'm able to enjoy both old and new film music alike shouldn't be a problem for you, even though you don't care much for the new, should it?

Have a glass of wine, put on some Rozsa and kick back!

 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 12:00 PM   
 By:   Vincent Bernard   (Member)

SECOND EDIT: You know, Thor, I wasn't going to reply to your passive-agressive bullshit but then I got to thinking… many times I've seen you bemoan the state of this board and how there are a dearth of serious film music discussion threads.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe replies like yours are part of the problem? I can tell you that, for me at least, this is one of the reasons that I don't participate more on this board.

"You revel in your misery about current times and in the 'superior scores of yesteryear', and I'll continue to enjoy the great film music from both past AND present."

Really, sir. I protest. I protest most strongly.


Geez, Vincent, why the vitriol and personal attacks?

So we have different viewpoints on the matter. So what? As I said -- that I'm able to enjoy both old and new film music alike shouldn't be a problem for you, even though you don't care much for the new, should it?

Have a glass of wine, put on some Rozsa and kick back!


Sorry if my reply came off as a personal attack but it seemed to me that you were being a little passive aggressive. "Revel in your misery, etc." did not appear to be a simple statement of a difference of opinion.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 12:03 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

It was intended as a slight "nudge", perhaps, because of our very different opinions on the matter -- but no more than that. Sorry if you mistook it for something more. The internet and lack of 'body language' and all that.

 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 12:08 PM   
 By:   Vincent Bernard   (Member)

It was intended as a slight "nudge", perhaps, because of our very different opinions on the matter -- but no more than that. Sorry if you mistook it for something more. The internet and lack of 'body language' and all that.

Ok, then. No worries.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 2:24 PM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

I enjoyed the programme very much - thank you for posting the link - and have mixed feelings about the whole subject of film music. I've been listening - and collecting - for 40+ years and the major change, for me, has been the fall-off in my desire to buy new scores.

On another thread some weeks ago to which I responded, asking what new scores we like/buy, I found that in the last five years I've acquired very few. And this in a period in which I've bought more CDs than ever before.

So I look upon the issue of modern film music as a phase we're going through. Okay, it's lasting quite a few years but then if we look back at the early/mid-70s we find a similar vein ... a period when the glorious scores of the 60s had come to an end and we were inundated with that awful noise called pop. For every good use of pop there were a dozen or more not ...

And the likes of our favoured composers were out-of-favour with the film companies. Wasn't it during this period that Mr. Goldsmith did a whole lot of TV? He wasn't alone.

And surely Mr. Zimmer is correct: in previous times the named composers didn't work alone - but it was usually only the one name which was publicised. Messrs Goldsmith and Mancini worked for years in the studio system without public acknowledgement until their breakthroughs. He says he wants to credit others working on the scores ... but this appears to have backfired on him.

And the comment that a film is a team effort (subject of course to the team doing what the boss dictates) must hold true with all the money involved. It's been stated so many times it must be true: you're only as good as your last film.

And if the beauty of our wonderful music is the casualty? So what? The dearth of good film scores in recent years has pushed me to look elsewhere. I just hope I'm still around and still happy to buy film music when this present Hollywood sound is a thing of the past.

All we need is another John Williams backed by some financial clout. Of course, if the likes of Mr. Balfe become widespread then finding a Music Maestro may not be that easy!

Mitch

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 5:54 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

TO MUSIC MAD- Did you ever think that after 40 years of buying soundtracks the reason for your less interest in it is not the music but something much more deeper, YOU.

 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 11:02 PM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

Excellent programme which brings our ongoing discussion into sharper focus, actually quoting composers working in the current climate.

 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2013 - 11:27 PM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)


Finally, I just have to comment on Lorne Balfe. Balfe seemed like a very nasty person and listening to him was painful. He seemed so sneering of the interviewer and dismissive of anyone--be them composers or filmmakers--with legitimate, academic musical knowledge. Balfe seemed absolutely arrogant about his utter lack of education, very much "Hey look at me! I'm modern and I'm 100% right and you're stupid for knowing these terms." Balfe seemed bewildered anyone would know musical terminology, and I was horrified when he said he'd need to Google it!


Absolutely.

And his insistence that this is just a business tells one how little ambition is behind his work. The only ambition is to make money.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 1:04 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

TO MUSIC MAD- Did you ever think that after 40 years of buying soundtracks the reason for your less interest in it is not the music...

Yes

... but something much more deeper, YOU.


No

smile
Mitch

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 5:29 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

In a way, when he talks about being "diluted by imitators," it sounds like he is almost a prisoner of his own success. Stakeholders want the Zimmer power anthem, and he wants to give them what they want.

This part of Zimmer's interview confused/annoyed me the most. He built up an empire of composers, taught them all to write in the same style, provided them all with the same equipment, created them to mix and match scores, and then complains that his sound is "diluted by imitators"?

Whos fault is that, hmmm, Hans?

I used to love his sound/uniqueness in the 80s. Pacific Heights is still one of my absolute favourities. But he's ruined himself IMHO.

And Lorne Balfe... WHO?? lol

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   dpsternan   (Member)

Thanks for the link, OP!

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 7:06 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

This radio program at least goes a bit deeper into the current climate of homogenization in film music which nobody can deny is happening right now; yet I do feel that most of my current favorite composers (Young, Silvestri, Elfman, Debney, Vázquez, ... ) walk a fine line between minimalistic/droning scoring and thematic orchestrated music, sort of a best of both worlds and I do see merit in both approaches as they have proven they can work in the right context.

I do wish the program would have included directors/editors/producers into the mix as to explain why they want that type of score, rather than just put a bookend at the end about the 'hollywood system' being the blame.

Regarding that Superman comparison; I think the Williams score (and I'm sure I'll get harpooned for saying this) is outdated and Zimmer's score (I'm sure I'll get applauded for this) too boring. And I never listen to Star Wars... am I a film music fan? big grin

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 7:08 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)



I do wish the program would have included directors/editors/producers into the mix as to explain why they want that type of score, rather than just put a bookend at the end about the 'hollywood system' being the blame.


That would have been great.

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 9:26 AM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)



I do wish the program would have included directors/editors/producers into the mix as to explain why they want that type of score, rather than just put a bookend at the end about the 'hollywood system' being the blame.


That would have been great.


True. But I don´t think any director/editor or producer would have had the guts (or suicidal tendency) to actually declare: the studio makes us do it, our music budget is way down anyway, we can only afford scores that sound like Zimmer and can be done by one person on his keyboard in two days.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   Alex Klein   (Member)


Hans Zimmer is successful because he knows how to bullshit his directors into thinking that what he's doing is cutting edge awesome. Oh, listen to this Nolan, it's called a minor third! Or, it's nine hours of a guy playing a single note on a cello! Won't it be great for the Joker? Fuck you, Hans. Fuck you. We had John Williams and the London Symphony Orchestra. Now, we've got you and Sheila E. Go fuck yourself.

But no, here's Thor Haga to tell me that all is well, you're just imagining it all. Guys like James Horner, Danny Elfman, Richard Kraft and Jon Burlingame don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Film music is alive and well! Rejoice!

Bull. Shit.

The last time I took notice of the music in a film was Brian Tyler's "Can You Dig It" from IRON MAN 3 and only because it reminded me very much of Barry Gray's main title for UFO. I can't remember the time before that.


FILM MUSIC IS DEAD. LONG LIVE FILM MUSIC!


Vincent,
Thank you for such a great post. It gave me good laughs and it perfectly echoes my own thoughts on current film music.
I sometimes wonder if Burlingame's passive comments are simple diplomacy. I don't know, but I would also be disappointed if those are his true views about such a declining art form.

Alex

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 1:15 PM   
 By:   smuli of finland   (Member)

Is there any way to download this? I'd like to have this permanently, such nice points made.
Balfe. I actually got a little angry and depressed from his interview. But possibly it was one-sidedly edited and I should ignore all that and focus on the positive side and smilingly listen to new flim music. And I mean that passive-aggressively.
Oh boy and girl. I'm still in a bit of a shock from this 44min segment. I quite hate what Zimmer's scores are today. He has been diverse, to me his era from late 90s to early 00s is one of the best of any composer's several-year-period. Great stuff in different styles. Lately he's been just boring. But a hint of hope for me is the fact that almost all things in life are a passing phase. Perhaps in ten or twenty years you'll get to hear orchestral melodic scores again.
Personally, I dont give a flying ifyouseekamy about what era a score is from. Most important thing is whether or not I like it. Very few new scores go to my Top 50 or even 100. It's a mathematic probability that we will (or already have) run out of chord combinations.
I've heard from a person that a film composer is not a musician, but a film maker. Yes. If a film has to make profit, the composer cannot get too artsy. How many new flavors of Coca Cola have been on the market for very long?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 3:39 PM   
 By:   cirithungol   (Member)

Lorne Balfe...



 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2013 - 9:08 PM   
 By:   robertmro   (Member)

Thank you Mike_H.

I suppose we could say that Igor Stravinsky started it with "The Rite of Spring".
People stormed out and fist fights ensued.

Decades later it's considered genius.

Maybe he's ahead of our time, but to me living in the present, it just sounds like noise made by a person who has no musical training. Hans Zimmer comes off like a snake oil salesman fleecing the idiots from the studios and laughing all the way to the bank.

All I could think of was Bernard Herrman saying: "Crappy music for a crappy movie for a crappy audience".

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2013 - 12:32 AM   
 By:   Dr Lenera   (Member)

A bit of a depressing listen really. We just need to hope that things, eventually, will change.

 
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