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Piggy-backing on OnlyGoodMusic's thought above, I think it's great that no thread on the Board in the last few days has gotten more activity than this one devoted to two less-than-classic films scored by two excellent but under-recorded composers. Long may Kritzerland wave!
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Posted: |
Jun 19, 2013 - 11:35 AM
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By: |
manderley
(Member)
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.....Secret of the Incas does not have a legitimate release anywhere in the world, as far as I am aware of. Pretty shocking.
Unfortunate, perhaps, but not shocking. All films cannot stay available forever, at least not profitably. That's a simple fact of life.
Well... perhaps not on physical media, anyway. Streaming and downloads do at least offer that advantage (so long as licensing and rights issues don't get in the way, of course).....
These comments by SchiffyM and JoeE are quite interesting to me. They bolster an argument that I have long supported about downloading and streaming.
I'm old---old enough that it shouldn't concern me anymore---and probably unaware of the full ramifications of all of this---but it seems to me that while music and pictorial content will (presumably) no longer reside on a CD, or DVD, or videotape---and certainly not in a mysterious, moisture-prone "cloud" up in the sky (as some believe)---it WILL reside on a PHYSICAL medium---the mechanical "server" stored in a dark warehouse somewhere.
So, in effect, we will be substituting a physical "server"---controlled by someone else---for a simple shiny disc---which WE control for as long as we wish, until we toss it or give it to Goodwill.
In terms of the owner of the original material, it costs him money to maintain this server, or rent the space on it, and to continue to add new available material. If he runs out of space, he must upgrade his machinery or rent more space to contain the added material. He must constantly expend money to service and maintain his server or pay added fees to the supplier to improve or maintain the service.
This gets down to SchiffM's argument about profitability. If the supplier only realizes 10 downloads per year at 99 cents each on a given film---say HONEYCHILE with Judy Canova---or BROKEN BLOSSOMS with Richard Barthelmess---how long do you think he will continue to store Judy and Richard's work on his server and how long do you think you'll be able to access it whenever you wish?
I can remember---in the early, heady days of the new CD format---how everyone believed we would finally get every single piece of music ever recorded on a compact, easily playable, easily storable medium. It is now nearly 35 years later, and we STILL don't have nearly all of our "wants"---film or musical.
I'm also surprised that certain events of the past few years haven't alerted consumers to the dangers of downloading and streaming as a final end-all and be-all:
There was the eBook situation (was it "Kindle"), where the supplier of a particular electronic book to its customers suddenly erased that material (which they had already paid for) from each individual's eBook hard drive. This was because of a sudden change in "rights," I believe.
Then, in another case a short time ago, certain customers had uploaded copyrighted material to a server, and in resolving this issue, the government closed down that entire server without warning, thereby erasing the accounts of all those customers who simply had legal family pictures, correspondence and other personal files, etc., stored there. It was all gone in a flash.
As collectors, I would think we would want to be far more interested in subscribing to a medium that was near guaranteed to be available to us forever (or as long as we wished), without suffering the vagaries of government decision-making or profitability of outside company servers.
Over a lifetime, I have amassed a very large collection of films and music. Some of it has been used for work projects, other of it is simply enjoyed as a pastime. While many of you have an interest in seeing SECRET OF THE INCAS and wonder where you can see it, I have no worries whatsoever. That particular film is contained in my collection on a videotape, a DVD-R, and a 16mm Technicolor print. I can pull it right off the shelf and look at it---NOW---in one of several formats.
I am convinced that while downloading and streaming is a great deal for the studios and corporate entities, it's not so great for the collector/consumer in the long run---unless he simply considers media short-term ephemera and is willing to trust others to provide his immediate entertainment gratification. In some cases, it will be an unrequited love affair.
At least now I know I'll have Bruce's SECRET OF THE INCAS/THE FAR HORIZONS until I die. 
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You have no idea how the posts in this thread delight me - and some of the usual Kritzerland bashers are nowhere to be found, and that's quite refreshing, too. I love the music on this disc, and no one else would have touched it with a ten foot pole or a five foot czech. But the biggest surprise is that while none of us expected HUGE sales, it's really doing quite nicely.
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Well, that's not quite fair, as Lukas Kendall would definitely touch stuff this obscure (and MORE obscure -- how about Eye of the Devil?) regularly on his FSM label. While FSM as a CD label is now no longer active, perhaps Lukas will still be able to champion the obscure in small print quantities for LLL or Intrada (who on their own have done stuff this obscure on rare occasion as well).
All that said, Bruce, you certainly deserve major kudos for being the active film music label still *regularly* putting out stuff like this.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Jun 19, 2013 - 2:36 PM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Manderley, you bring up good points. But I don't see it as a crisis. It was only about thirty years ago that anybody had an expectation of owning a film (aside from the rare collectors of actual film prints). You'd scan the TV listings (or, in a big city, the revival house listings) in hopes of finding a favorite film, usually in a lousy print and, on television, cut for time and commercials. And you were at the mercy of a the station showing them, and the distributers, who would yank prints when a remake was in production or the like. I think the streaming situation is better than that.
It's also, by the way, what consumers, in general, prefer. Only the hardcore collectors still amass huge collections of physical media. For the time being, they're still being served, and that will continue as long as the market is there. Selling DVDs and Blu-Rays is more profitable than streaming, at least as it is currently (though certainly, studios will start their own streaming "channels" rather than using Netflix and the like as middlemen).
To clarify your Kindle example, it was (ironically) "1984" that was remote-deleted, not because of a change in rights but because the supplier of that title for the Kindle turned out not to have had the rights in the first place. It has not happened since that outcry (in 2009), and Amazon has said they won't let it happen again (though I don't know what they'll do if the same situation crops up again).
The thing is, my kids find many of the movies I loved as a kid to be (by and large) slow and foreign to them. It is always the way, and as long as time is finite it always will be, that only the most celebrated art lasts decades and centuries. The rest necessarily falls into obscurity. So a song like "Someone to Watch Over Me" is still a standard almost nine decades later, but most other popular 1926 songs are foreign to us. How could it be any other way?
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Bruce
I want to make sure I dont miss this like I did on Laura -
I tried to place an order on your site thru paypal for this cd + the special(with the Previn score) on the Waxman trio- but it wont accept both - wonder if anyone else has had this problem?
I tried on two computers but I couldnt place both items in the cart - I left a message on the call line today but I thought I should ask here too.
my email is prjdean at hotmail
thanks
When did you try? We had an issue on Monday, but it was resolved in the evening and it should be fine now. You may have to clear your cache or when you get to the order page for Far Horizons, REFRESH the page before you order. The page is probably in your computer's memory from the other day, so just clear or refresh and you should be good to go. The problem was only with the add to cart button on Far Horizons and it was definitely fixed.
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Posted: |
Jun 19, 2013 - 8:10 PM
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By: |
PFK
(Member)
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Well, that's not quite fair, as Lukas Kendall would definitely touch stuff this obscure (and MORE obscure -- how about Eye of the Devil?) regularly on his FSM label. While FSM as a CD label is now no longer active, perhaps Lukas will still be able to champion the obscure in small print quantities for LLL or Intrada (who on their own have done stuff this obscure on rare occasion as well).
All that said, Bruce, you certainly deserve major kudos for being the active film music label still *regularly* putting out stuff like this.
Yavar
Obviously I was not mentioning Lukas because FSM no longer does CDs (but he is the co-producer of this CD) - I meant the current labels - amusingly, I think they'll all be scrambling for this stuff again once they realize that there's not much from the 80s left and that doing a sixth release of something is not going to work anymore. In fact, it happened three months ago with a label, only they found that every title they wanted was with us
As long as I can do this you can all rest assured that my heart is in the Golden and Silver Age through the 1970s, with rare occasional forays into the 1980s for scores I like.
Thanks for the encouraging words Bruce. You can count on me as a faithful customer!
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I was only thinking to myself yesterday that "Bruce is going to spark off a renaissance of Golden Age releases"... looks like the wheels are turning once more! Thanks again Mr. Kritzerland for all the great music you are giving us, most appreciated!
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Bruce
I want to make sure I dont miss this like I did on Laura -
I tried to place an order on your site thru paypal for this cd + the special(with the Previn score) on the Waxman trio- but it wont accept both - wonder if anyone else has had this problem?
I tried on two computers but I couldnt place both items in the cart - I left a message on the call line today but I thought I should ask here too.
my email is prjdean at hotmail
thanks
When did you try? We had an issue on Monday, but it was resolved in the evening and it should be fine now. You may have to clear your cache or when you get to the order page for Far Horizons, REFRESH the page before you order. The page is probably in your computer's memory from the other day, so just clear or refresh and you should be good to go. The problem was only with the add to cart button on Far Horizons and it was definitely fixed.
Yes it does work now - order placed - these two discs I am really excited to hear --
I always loved ELEPHANT WALK -- the sight of young Elizabeth in technicolor made up for any 'flaws" in the narrative - also remember later being able to spot a few long shots of Vivien Leigh who ET replaced after VL's nervous breakdown.
I have seen never seen SECRET OF THE INCAS but would to see an official release. Im sure Ill love the music . Is there an alternate cover for SECRET .. in addition to FAR HORIZONS?
No reverse cover on this one - no room - had to do the billing blocks on the back of the booklet - it's hard when there are two titles on one CD because the notes are longer.
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