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 Posted:   Sep 24, 2018 - 12:15 PM   
 By:   Bill Carson, Earl of Poncey   (Member)


He is the young man who accompanied us to Tanglewood last summer and he wants to go again this year. It is so refreshing to talk to someone so young and so eager to discover a different genre of music. I offered to share some scores with him that I thought he might enjoy. He took me up on it.

"I think I'm quite ready for another adventure."


Hey edw
As long as he doesnt post on here every 15 minutes "Help me get into goldsmith/williams/herrmann/rosza/Bernstein/ennio/ etc" (alternate hourly!). wink

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2018 - 12:48 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2018 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

If this awesome score gets a Tadlow treatment like Conan with a much better performance than the original recording, that'd be awesome! 2 discs would offer space for the complete score with synths as well as the purely orchestral concert arrangements. Conan also had an alternate of Riders of Doom without choir. Please Tadlow!

Is there any other Goldsmith score with a performance that unsatisfying?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2018 - 9:57 AM   
 By:   Rnelson   (Member)



Is there any other Goldsmith score with a performance that unsatisfying?


The Cassandra Crossing.

 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2018 - 10:08 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Is there any other Goldsmith score with a performance that unsatisfying?

I'm not asking for a new recording, but much of the performance on "Hoosiers" (especially in the brass) is incredibly ragged.

 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2018 - 11:17 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Is there any other Goldsmith score with a performance that unsatisfying?

Are you kidding? The same orchestra played on several other scores for him, more poorly IMO -- Hoosiers and Rambo III in particular come to mind (the latter a GREAT composition but comes across as such a step down after the first two scores, in terms of orchestral performance).

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2018 - 10:55 AM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

Is there any other Goldsmith score with a performance that unsatisfying?

Are you kidding? The same orchestra played on several other scores for him, more poorly IMO -- Hoosiers and Rambo III in particular come to mind (the latter a GREAT composition but comes across as such a step down after the first two scores, in terms of orchestral performance).

Yavar


Can you provide some links to excerpts where it's (supposedly) pretty obvious?

 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2018 - 11:00 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Don't really care enough to spend my time doing that, to be honest. It's just as obvious to me, if not moreso, than apparently the poor performance in Lionheart is obvious to you. I find it just as acceptable as them. If you can't hear similar performance issues, no need for me to spend my time seeking out weak points just to make you enjoy those scores less...

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2018 - 12:47 AM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

Ah okay, I was just asking in case you had especial passages in mind that you were referring to. But you're right, no need to waste your time just in order to spoil these scores for me. I have to admit re-listening to these scores, I hear their tendencies to sound school-orchestra-ish at times. (Of course that is exaggerated, the brass players have their issues though.)

Regarding Lionheart, I don't have a problem with its performance, as I have never listened to that score. I just want a physical CD release, and since Varese is not and never was in any hurry to make that happen, a reissue that fixes the performance issues at the same time would be awesome.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2018 - 4:38 AM   
 By:   davefg   (Member)

In general, would people be interested in a re-recording of Lionheart? Oh and could someone please post a link to the poll where Lionheart lost to Thriller? Thanks.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2018 - 9:25 AM   
 By:   LeighPhillips   (Member)

In general, would people be interested in a re-recording of Lionheart? Oh and could someone please post a link to the poll where Lionheart lost to Thriller? Thanks.

I'm not sure that it's still online, as it closed on Aug 4, 2014. But the result was a close one (to say the least!!):

Lionheart 49.46%

Thriller 50.24%

I certainly haven't forgotten about it, as a potential (future) kickstarter; a score as good....no....as *great* as this really does deserve a fresh reading.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2018 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Regarding Lionheart, I don't have a problem with its performance, as I have never listened to that score. I just want a physical CD release, and since Varese is not and never was in any hurry to make that happen, a reissue that fixes the performance issues at the same time would be awesome.

Well, that wouldn't be a reissue, but a wholly new performance.

That is, unless Michael Mattesino can give the score the Superman IV treatment and piece together a better "performance" from multiple takes.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2018 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   connorb93   (Member)

This THE score that made me a Goldsmith fanatic; one of his very best and to a movie so fascinatingly obscure.

Honestly, if there's any future for this score, I just hope it comes with a LOT of detailed research. I'm curious how a movie with so much talent involved turned into something so limp, odd, and forgotten. I doubt Coppola has ever been asked about this one but I'd be the first if I got the chance.

If you watch the film, it has some truly unusual edits (especially musical) and at times it seems...undeveloped as a whole.

I would love to hear more about the production on the musical end of things too. The performance isn't terrible, save for the obvious troubles in the trumpet section a few times. Always amazed at how much clearer the Islands in the Stream performance is in both performance and recording, despite the fact that it happened right after the Lionheart sessions.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 30, 2018 - 2:20 AM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

In general, would people be interested in a re-recording of Lionheart? Oh and could someone please post a link to the poll where Lionheart lost to Thriller? Thanks.

I'm not sure that it's still online, as it closed on Aug 4, 2014. But the result was a close one (to say the least!!):

Lionheart 49.46%

Thriller 50.24%

I certainly haven't forgotten about it, as a potential (future) kickstarter; a score as good....no....as *great* as this really does deserve a fresh reading.


Lionheart can't be off the table with that result. It would sell as well as Thriller, since it has (basically) the same amount of voters. I mean, it's not like this poll was the only and last chance for a re-recording.

 
 Posted:   Sep 30, 2018 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Yes this most likely indicates that a new Lionheart recording would sell as well as Thriller, but it would surely also cost several times as much as Thriller, which was written for a small chamber orchestra.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 1, 2018 - 1:38 PM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

Yes this most likely indicates that a new Lionheart recording would sell as well as Thriller, but it would surely also cost several times as much as Thriller, which was written for a small chamber orchestra.

Yavar


But as the poll indicates they already would have done Lionheart (if it had won). So the costs cannot be a problem, especially not now, considering how successful Tadlow is.

 
 Posted:   Oct 1, 2018 - 5:06 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

But as the poll indicates they already would have done Lionheart (if it had won). So the costs cannot be a problem, especially not now, considering how successful Tadlow is.

If Lionheart had gotten 70% of the vote and Thriller 30%, then maybe they would have recorded it (that said, James Fitzpatrick himself has frankly seemed less than enthusiastic about the idea). I don't think if the results were just switched and Lionheart got 51% and Thriller 49%, that Lionheart would have happened, because the costs were so much greater. I suspect it was similar to what Roger wrote at Intrada recently about the poll for their next Kickstarter: "there are a lot of factors that go into what to record that goes beyond the most popular. I would love to do Jungle Book, but it's big with chorus and could easily cost $20K more than the more straight forward Dial M...making it possibly harder to raise the funds for, even if more popular."

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7967

Finally, hate to break it to you, but Tadlow has not been "successful" in terms of turning on a profit on classic film score recordings. Almost every single Tadlow recording has been a money-losing venture, done as a labor of love. I think a few years ago James Fitzpatrick said that only three Tadlow recordings had ever sold enough units to be profitable. One was Conan the Barbarian of course (though that was a Prometheus title that Tadlow did for hire, so they were just paid rather than seeing the profits from sales). I think the other two might have been El Cid and Lawrence of Arabia, but I'm not sure.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2018 - 12:13 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Yes this most likely indicates that a new Lionheart recording would sell as well as Thriller, but it would surely also cost several times as much as Thriller, which was written for a small chamber orchestra.

You are undoubtedly correct about the cost issue, but I think the voting sampling is too small to indicate equivalent sales.

 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2018 - 1:18 AM   
 By:   davefg   (Member)

Yes this most likely indicates that a new Lionheart recording would sell as well as Thriller, but it would surely also cost several times as much as Thriller, which was written for a small chamber orchestra.

You are undoubtedly correct about the cost issue, but I think the voting sampling is too small to indicate equivalent sales.


The costs could be lower for Tadlow, if they raised funds through a Kickstarter after James is finished with King of Kings. It would be interesting to see how popular Goldsmith is among film score lovers.

 
 Posted:   Nov 2, 2018 - 2:35 PM   
 By:   davefg   (Member)

I wonder if this will see the light of day after the release of The Vikings?

 
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