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 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 11:09 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

In its favor, THE PRIDE AND THE PASSION also had a lively main title by Saul Bass. The ending of the main title is particularly effective, too, where the vivid blood-red background of the titles, in dye-transfer Technicolor, does a VERY slow dissolve through to the war battlefield in the first live-action scene.





.....Add the Hollywood Paramount to your horizontal vistaVision projectors list, too, Ed. Apparently at least STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND and TO CATCH A THIEF played there in horizontal VV.

I shot the second-unit, including special effects sequences, for De Palma's MISSION TO MARS in vistaVision, and we would look at our dailies in horizontal vistaVision. Spectacular process!

The projector we were using was one of the original Century horizontal vistaVision projectors, stripped-down, and synced to a sound reproducer for the double-system workprint. I can't imagine where they still found an old projector from the 1950s.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 12:24 PM   
 By:   James MacMillan   (Member)

Lovers of Antheil's music for The Pride and the Passion should seek out his Ballet Suite "Capital of the World", written and recorded in the early-to-mid 1950s, inspired by a Hemingway story whose setting was Madrid. Marvelous stuff.

- James.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 12:38 PM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

Lovers of Antheil's music for The Pride and the Passion should seek out his Ballet Suite "Capital of the World", written and recorded in the early-to-mid 1950s, inspired by a Hemingway story whose setting was Madrid. Marvelous stuff.

- James.


PRIDE AND THE PASSION is one title I have been looking into for quite a while...unfortunately the Antheil archive have been less than helpful...in fact not helpful at all...in trying to track down any sketches and scores.

A bit like the mysterious reply from the Rozsa estate a couple of years back re QUO VADIS that "we have plans of our own".

So far no more news from them...yet I could have recorded QUO VADIS a year ago if I was allowed access to the scores at Syracuse University. (EMI the publishers of the music already have given their permission).

Maybe I should just try and source the scores from elsewhere???

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 12:39 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

I shot the second-unit, including special effects sequences, for De Palma's MISSION TO MARS in vistaVision, and we would look at our dailies in horizontal vistaVision. Spectacular process!

The projector we were using was one of the original Century horizontal vistaVision projectors, stripped-down, and synced to a sound reproducer for the double-system workprint. I can't imagine where they still found an old projector from the 1950s.


When the Warner Beverly Hills converted to 70mm, they removed their two Century horizontal projectors, replacing them with two Norelco DP-70's.

Paramount studios owned two horizontal projectors. So the one you used could have been a stripped down version one of those.

I understand Paramount still has a horizontal projector in storage.

Now with digital acquisition replacing film, the use of Vistavision for special effects photography will evaporate.

The other night I watched the silly film "2012" which was photographed mostly by a Panavision Genesis digital HD camera. Just about every single time where the images were moving rapidly, I noticed terrible strobing which is caused by the digital camera's shutter being adjusted to allow for more exposure. When I ran post for 20th Century Fox Television I'd notice this anomaly with Fox TV series that were shot using digital cameras. When I complained about it I was told no one else could see it.

Like with every new innovation in the entertainment industry, those who utilize it tend to misuse it.

Back to the score for "Pride." It sounded like Antheil's score was played by smaller orchestra than was the usual case for a blockbuster film. If a new version is to be produced, hopefully it could be expanded for a larger orchestra.

Also, I wonder just how much Ernest Gold contributed to that score.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   clipton   (Member)

Tadlow will run out of ideas after they will have rerecorded LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and TARAS BULBA. They are interested in suggestions for realistic projects that they can plan for/endquote]

I think a re-recording of Bernard Herrmann's Beneath the Twelve Mile Reef - with great sonics - could be spectacular. As you probably know, the FSM release is filled with WOW (warped vinyl sound). And Lukas stated in response to one my message board queries re Reef that the master tapes were probably destroyed duringr the initial re-mastering digital transfer run through [if that's the proper terminology].

Herrmann's underwater sequences are dazzling -- and when you consider the fact that he used as many as TWELVE!!! harps. a state-of-the-art re-recording would IMHO be a knock-out.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

I think a re-recording of Bernard Herrmann's Beneath the Twelve Mile Reef - with great sonics - could be spectacular. As you probably know, the FSM release is filled with WOW (warped vinyl sound). And Lukas stated in response to one my message board queries re Reef that the master tapes were probably destroyed duringr the initial re-mastering digital transfer run through [if that's the proper terminology.

The 35mm magnetic masters were in bad shape when a final pass was made to protect them. The 'wow' was caused by film shrinkage.

I personally went through several cans of 35mm full-coat outtakes for "Soldier of Fortune" noticing they had not only suffered from 'vinegar syndrome' but had crinkled where the film curls up. They were all unplayable.

The 'wow' doesn't run throughout the entire CD. Some cues are fine:



For the RCA Classic Film Score series, Charles Gerhardt conducted an excellent suite taken from the score.

At one point in time Fox failed to renew the copyright so the film fell into public domain. I have a laser disc that's letterboxed that wasn't issued by Fox. The source was a 35mm print.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 2:58 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

PRIDE AND THE PASSION is one title I have been looking into for quite a while...unfortunately the Antheil archive have been less than helpful...in fact not helpful at all...in trying to track down any sketches and scores.

A bit like the mysterious reply from the Rozsa estate a couple of years back re QUO VADIS that "we have plans of our own".

So far no more news from them...yet I could have recorded QUO VADIS a year ago if I was allowed access to the scores at Syracuse University. (EMI the publishers of the music already have given their permission).

Maybe I should just try and source the scores from elsewhere???


James ......please, please, just go ahead sourcing where you can, even if it means transcribing from the film soundtracks!!

 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

The other night I watched the silly film "2012" which was photographed mostly by a Panavision Genesis digital HD camera. Just about every single time where the images were moving rapidly, I noticed terrible strobing which is caused by the digital camera's shutter being adjusted to allow for more exposure. When I ran post for 20th Century Fox Television I'd notice this anomaly with Fox TV series that were shot using digital cameras. When I complained about it I was told no one else could see it.

Nope Rich, not the only one. I saw 2012 in the cinema and didn't notice the motion blur in a darkened theatre. It looks like the film was a hybrid, now you see it, now you don't. All the effects sequences don't feature the dreaded blur (for instance). I then saw the dvd and sure enough, the dastardly tell-tale afterimage from sudden motion on screen became apparent everywhere in the live action bits. The Kevin Spacey feature, '21' also contained the same awful home video crappy imagery. This digital baffoonery is, to quote Mr. Connery from somewhere, 'not perfected yet.'

Edit: I think this trend started (maybe) with the husband and wife feature 'Open Water.'

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 3:59 PM   
 By:   The Jazz.Slinger   (Member)

Maybe I should just try and source the scores [to QUO VADIS] from elsewhere???

You don't need to ask permission! As you say, EMI's on board; the Rozsa family may control access to the written scoresheets, but they don't own the music. I realize that full-scale reconstruction is arduous and expensive, but as long as you think you can get an accurate transcription of the music as it appears in the film, and aren't dissuaded by the cost, please, please, please forge ahead.

I do wonder, though, whether Nick Rozsa should be compelled to fish or cut bait on access to the materials after holding up such a project for two years based on nothing but a vague statement about future "plans." Just what are Syracuse University's rules on granting such access, anyway?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

The other night I watched the silly film "2012" which was photographed mostly by a Panavision Genesis digital HD camera. Just about every single time where the images were moving rapidly, I noticed terrible strobing which is caused by the digital camera's shutter being adjusted to allow for more exposure. When I ran post for 20th Century Fox Television I'd notice this anomaly with Fox TV series that were shot using digital cameras. When I complained about it I was told no one else could see it.

Nope Rich, not the only one. I saw 2012 in the cinema and didn't notice the motion blur in a darkened theatre. It looks like the film was a hybrid, now you see it, now you don't. All the effects sequences don't feature the dreaded blur (for instance). I then saw the dvd and sure enough, the dastardly tell-tale afterimage from sudden motion on screen became apparent everywhere in the live action bits. The Kevin Spacey feature, '21' also contained the same awful home video crappy imagery. This digital baffoonery is, to quote Mr. Connery from somewhere, 'not perfected yet.'

Edit: I think this trend started (maybe) with the husband and wife feature 'Open Water.'


This anomaly seems to only show up when a production shot in digital is shown on TV. In the theater when film is projected it seems to diminish.

Actually, the technology has been perfected a lot more than you think. The problem occurs when the DP decides to play around with the variable shutter. I went out to Panavision to see what they felt should be recommended parameters for adjusting the shutter and took that info back to the studio. When I presented it I was told it's more important to reduce the amount of lighting on the set than to eliminate some motion blurring which I was repeatedly told no one other than me could see. That's the chief reason why they fool with the shutter. After a while I just gave up. It was all academic. Most of the series I supervised shooting digital were crap.

 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 4:30 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Nevertheless, Rich, I fear the digital camera 'honey' has taken hold and that means gone are the days of the true 'celluloid ambiance,' complete with stuttering frames and glitches (which for some reason, I'm rather fond of.) They have absolutely got to tweak this persistence problem if I'm to feel comfortable watching digitally shot movies again.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2010 - 4:34 PM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

Maybe I should just try and source the scores [to QUO VADIS] from elsewhere???

You don't need to ask permission! As you say, EMI's on board; the Rozsa family may control access to the written scoresheets, but they don't own the music. I realize that full-scale reconstruction is arduous and expensive, but as long as you think you can get an accurate transcription of the music as it appears in the film, and aren't dissuaded by the cost, please, please, please forge ahead.

I do wonder, though, whether Nick Rozsa should be compelled to fish or cut bait on access to the materials after holding up such a project for two years based on nothing but a vague statement about future "plans." Just what are Syracuse University's rules on granting such access, anyway?



Perhaps Nick Rozsa was referring to the FSM release of the original tracks as they probably didn't want a new recording up against the archival sound of the original soundtrack. Well worth another shot at getting 'permission'.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 12:09 AM   
 By:   mulan98   (Member)

PRIDE AND THE PASSION is one title I have been looking into for quite a while...unfortunately the Antheil archive have been less than helpful...in fact not helpful at all...in trying to track down any sketches and scores.

A bit like the mysterious reply from the Rozsa estate a couple of years back re QUO VADIS that "we have plans of our own".

So far no more news from them...yet I could have recorded QUO VADIS a year ago if I was allowed access to the scores at Syracuse University. (EMI the publishers of the music already have given their permission).

Maybe I should just try and source the scores from elsewhere???


James ......please, please, just go ahead sourcing where you can, even if it means transcribing from the film soundtracks!!


Back to TPATP for a sec'.

Am I right in thinking that non of the currently available recordings features the immortal 'End Title'?
This combined with Saul Bass' graphics and the card 'The Spanish people, in their Tens of Thousands, who made possible this Picture' bought the picture to a rousting close.

And back to VistaVision. Doug'? you'd know. Were there any UK sites equipped for VistaVision projection?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 12:32 AM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

Were there any UK sites equipped for VistaVision projection?

Somehow I seriously doubt it since Paramount Studios only made a handful of horizontal prints. I read somewhere that only four theaters in the US could show the format. Two in New York (Radio City Music Hall & the New York Paramount), one in Beverly Hills (Warner) and a special theater in Colonial Williamsburg built to screen a short subject that became the longest running horizontally projected film which was was "Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot" with music by Bernard Herrmann. That was the only Paramount produced film to contain a magnetic stereo soundtrack. It was mixed at Todd-AO. I have a hunch it was not scored at Paramount since the music was recorded on six tracks. But even that showing is no longer horizontally screened. Today they run a 70mm print.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 12:48 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)


And back to VistaVision. Doug'? you'd know. Were there any UK sites equipped for VistaVision projection?


As Ed says, it's doubtful. I never heard of any.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 1:21 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Were there any UK sites equipped for VistaVision projection?

Somehow I seriously doubt it since Paramount Studios only made a handful of horizontal prints.


Paramount wasn't the only studio to use VistaVision. Martin Hart's widescreenmuseum.com states the following:

"Paramount developed and promoted VistaVision in the U.S. In England, The Rank Organisation adopted the high resolution process. In addition to the standard 35mm reduction prints, Rank released several films in 8 perf horizontal format."

Hart does not identify the Rank films that were in the horizontal format, but Rank released the following films in VistaVision:

An Alligator Named Daisy (1956)
The Black Tent (1957)
Pursuit of the Graf Spee (1957)
The Spanish Gardener (1957)
Triple Deception (1957)
Value for Money (1957)
Dangerous Exile (1958)
Night Ambush (1958)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

Paramount wasn't the only studio to use VistaVision.

That's true. MGM used it for "High Society" and Hitchcock's "North by Northwest" But neither film was shown horizontally.

Incredible as it sounds, 1983's "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence" was shot in Vistavision. That would make it the last film to use the process in production.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Paramount wasn't the only studio to use VistaVision.

That's true. MGM used it for "High Society" and Hitchcock's "North by Northwest" But neither film was shown horizontally.

Also:

Away All Boats (1956) Universal-International
The Iron Petticoat (1956) MGM
Richard III (1956) Lopert
The Searchers (1956) Warner Bros.
Simon and Laura (1956) Universal-International
Doctor At Large (1957) Universal-International
Big Money (1962) Lopert

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 2:45 PM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

Paramount wasn't the only studio to use VistaVision.

That's true. MGM used it for "High Society" and Hitchcock's "North by Northwest" But neither film was shown horizontally.

Also:

Away All Boats (1956) Universal-International
The Iron Petticoat (1956) MGM
Richard III (1956) Lopert
The Searchers (1956) Warner Bros.
Simon and Laura (1956) Universal-International
Doctor At Large (1957) Universal-International
Big Money (1962) Lopert


The only Vistavision films shown horizontally were:

"White Christmas"
"Strategic Air Command"
"To Catch a Thief"
"Pursuit of the Graf Spee"

The last title was a British produced film with the British title "The Battle of the River Plate." It was shown in the US using the horizontal method. There's no record of any theater in the UK ever installing horizontal projectors.

The main reason for using Vistavision was it produced a sharper, less grainy image when projected off a standard 35mm print. Eventually improve negative stock along with the fact that Vistavision doubled the cost of negative stock budgeted for a production meant it was no longer favored. Also the Vistavision cameras were too bulky. When blimped to keep the mechanism noise form being picked up by sensitive microphones they were as large as a Technicolor three-strip camera:





 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2010 - 3:24 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

The only Vistavision films shown horizontally were:

"White Christmas"
"Strategic Air Command"
"To Catch a Thief"
"Pursuit of the Graf Spee"



THE COURT JESTER also played in horizontal vistaVision---at the New York Paramount, where I saw it in 1955. It was spectacular!

 
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