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I find this to be one of the saddest of Goldsmith scores. Perhaps the sound quality and reverb (of the LP)added to the feelings I get. Feelings of loneliness, despair, hope, anguish, love, coldness. Especially in tracks like 'Sky Chaser'.
Also, the sound quality makes it sound very old and brittle, but daring and alive.
And sure, I will order this new release soon enough!
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Posted: |
Dec 3, 2005 - 11:20 AM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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Sorry, Tall Guy, but I don't think it sounds like Morricone in the least.
Certainly the action tracks don't particularly, but the first track has so many Moricone hallmarks - the quasi-baroque construction, the oboe taking the plaintive melody, even the rolling piano. And most of all the melody itself, which is exactly the same as The Master and Margarita (coincidentally, I'm sure) in much of its development.
I'm not proposing this as a criticism, by the way, it just struck me, and I wondered if anyone else felt the same way. Any other Morriconians reading this?
I've found a clip on the net of the Morricone tune -
http://www.music.com/release/the_master_&_margarita/1/
Listen to track 1; although it starts with the "b" melody, the main part can be heard towards the end.
Best
Chris
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Posted: |
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:20 PM
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By: |
Heath
(Member)
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The Morricone and the Goldsmith themes are similar only in as much that they're both good examples of that 70s musical phenomenon The Big Schmaltzy Euro Tune.
Although Morricone probably invented it, people like Francis Lai, Michel Legrand used the mode in the period, and even Jerry Fielding had a go with Scorpio. Goldsmith's magnum opus in this regard might have been Cassandra Crossing, or maybe Last Run.
It was a fad, and a vulgar one too. Personally, this style makes my nostrils pucker. However I'm sure Alain Delon, Sophia Loren, Jean Paul Belmondo blah blah were grateful for this "epic and profound" sound as they swaned around their sun-drenched villas in deep and anguished thought as the Pan-European cameras rolled. Urgghh... Pretentious and deeply shallow. The Cinzano Bianco of film music.
Jeezus, I don't get out often enough.
Heath
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Posted: |
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:29 PM
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By: |
Timmer
(Member)
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OK FOLKS..
The new CD does use LP SOURCES, as a matter of fact several different LPs..
Side one on all releases were STEREO and SIDE 2 were MONO, as too why, I haven't a clue.
This release uses pretty much everything.
As for the master tapes, they have just gone missing.
The Publishing company didn't have any, the owners of the film didn't have any, none of the labels that released the LP didn't have any masters in their vaults,Goldsmith Archives didn't,etc....
I know I've been looking for them for the last 14 years....
So it came down to creating a new master using these LPS or NOTHING.
I know major labels that have been in the same spot, LPS can be a good source if they have been taken care of and transfer and cleaned up with ALOT OF TLC.
The good news the technology to do this has come LIGHT YEARS since the 1991 release and given a good source you can create a great CD master, it also helps to work with someone like James Nelson at DIGITAL OUTLAND who can work miracles.
The goal was to bring this into the 21st Century and make it sound as good as possible.
IMHO (Biased as it is) I think it turned out rather well.
You may agree, you may not, but the product will be out there and I would urge you to listen to the clips and make up your own mind.
Ford A. Thaxton
Thanks for the info Ford.
Having missed the Silva release I jumped at the chance on this one, Goldsmith was, IMO, going through a Golden period during the 70's.
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Yes. At least, I think both were released in 1975.
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If this reissue of Ransom is considered a great sound improvement over the Silva, I'm really glad I've never heard the Silva! I hadn't listened to this release in years simply because the sound quality was so disappointing. Honestly it's the worst sounding official Goldsmith release I've heard (maybe not counting the sound effects portions of Satan Bug). Something like Seconds from film stems honestly sounds much better to me! It's still listenable though, so I have to thank whoever did the work for Prometheus on trying to fix the problems of the LP. I don't want to sound too ungrateful because I'm still very glad to have an (apparently much) improved version. If this is the best we can get I'll take it.
Speaking of that LP program, was this the worst produced Goldsmith LP in history, or what? I mean, the sound is pretty awful, with half of the score inexplicably in mono even, and what is going on with the cue selection? What on earth is the point in including two duplicated cues, rather than including some other music from the score? I could understand duplication to pad out the album if this was a really short score like Clifton Parker's Damn the Defiant! (though I don't understand why some cues were left off of that just to feature duplicated stuff either). For myself when I recently imported this CD into iTunes I decided to just leave off the first track (I assumed it really was the End Titles, as it is reprised later, plus even if it's mono when it's reprised, it sounds a lot better than the first track, IMO) as well as the reprise of No Alternative (which clearly has worse sound to me). It comes to 29 minutes, including the source music! Personally I kind of like it opening with source music too -- it's pleasant and this way it doesn't interrupt the main body of the score. It's kind of like how Intrada's complete Bandolero opens with the main theme on a honky-tonk saloon piano.
It's just so frustrating because I can tell this is a very good Goldsmith score, just given the worst presentation any Goldsmith score ever got, it seems.
I'd totally plunk down the dough for Prometheus to revisit this title again...as a complete rerecording. Since from some nice email correspondence a couple years back I gather it is a favorite of Luc's, maybe he'll actually do it!
Okay, I admit I'm incredibly anxious for the next in their Goldsmith series, whatever it turns out to be...
Yavar
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Riotengine,
don't you dare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bruce
ps xoxox
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Just a few points...
1.) The only master of the score for RANSOM was the original LP. Who produced and what they used is anyone's guess. It was far from a perfect release.
2.) The 2005 reissue used the best possible copy of said LP and the magic of James Nelson of DIGITAL OUTLAND to get the best sound possible out of it. If anyone finds the original masters, please let me know.
3.) In regards to THE CASSANDRA CROSSING, the only masters available of the complete score were in MONO, the 2nd CD was taken from the earlier CD master. Not perfect, but IMHO more then listenable.
4.) THE SWARM was taken from the original 4 Track masters and to my ears always sound rather good.
Ford A. Thaxton
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double post
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Random sounds like a poorly-engineered recording that came from a lousy LP... which it is. There are no pops and clicks, but when you hear the distorted strings it is a giveaway for a cheap LP. That said, what James Nelson did for it is great. The best choice was to apparently invert the phase of one of the channels which revealed a natural(?) stereo field for some of the tracks. Much needed EQ was applied as well.
The Prometheus release is indeed much better-sounding than the Silva issue. I don't think it sounds much worse than, for example, typical the album sourced from Fox's 35mm mag elements (or whatever backups exist of them) from the '50s and '60s. Sure, Ransom is from 1974, but just imagine it was from 1964 instead. 
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Ransom and The Cassandra Crossing might have their sound issues, but Prometheus has put out some other great obscure Goldsmith that sounds just fine, and the piling on seems a bit unnecessary. Breakout, High Velocity, Contract on Cherry Street, and The Challenge are absolutely essential items that I have a hard time finding any fault with. And the only "fault" with The Swarm is that I liked the LP edits of some of the cues better, but without a somewhat needless second disc that would have been hard to fix.
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