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Posted: |
May 6, 2015 - 10:10 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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In some of the posts here and another thread I started there are various informations about the appearance of themes from previous films, and those two reviews also cover them, I think Jon did that with a lot of attention, seems to be the most complete breakdown.
I wanted to make a complete thematic breakdown also including the vague references and remnants of Tyler's (supposed) Avengers theme, but there was actually like no response there, but instead some actually really funny allusions on that "offensive thread-titles"-thread parodying it, which is ok for me
But then a weird guy here creates fake-accounts imitating me in another thread, mocking posts from many months ago, to make fun of me, which is kind of strange.
So I figured there was no interest,
and some people here don't like me tending to have much interest in music theoretical details and tending to
sound maybe a bit weird, and smart-ass, which I certainly do often.
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Mike, keep in mind that some people have not yet seen the film, or haven't heard the album as yet. The physical CD doesn't get released until May 19.
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Posted: |
May 7, 2015 - 3:25 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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Thanks, Josh. You are right.
Jon, we are very much on the page, great review.
"Enjoyable mess", yes, spot-on.
Surprisingly coherent actually, compared to a lot of blockbuster films, considering the weird scoring process on it. I think Elfman's theme being almost everywhere (also hidden in Farmhouse etc) helps.
And everything is very acoustic, orchestral. Ostinati are used with much variety here, they avoided that it sounds like copy-and-paste, changing details.
So it is actually much much better than usual. Still, people complain.
Jon, where do you hear Cap's march in "The Battle"?
And with the "Avengers theme-workout" here, where is that? Do you refer to the S.H.I.E.L.D string rhythm?
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I definitely heard the Silvestri Captain America theme at one point while watching the film, but I don't recall where and do not know if that cue appeared on the album. While Tyler's Tony Stark theme is all over this score, I did not hear his Thor theme, though I understand others have.
It seems that Elfman was brought in to really make this more of a sequel/franchise score, creating the new Avengers theme based upon Silvestri's material. He didn't ignore Tyler's work at all (he incorporates Tyler's Tony Stark and Ultron themes), so the score comes across as pretty consistent, despite the fact that it's something of a chimaera.
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The only time I noticed the Captain America theme was when they tracked in that section of Silvestri's "Assemble" cue.
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Posted: |
May 7, 2015 - 6:41 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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The only time I noticed the Captain America theme was when they tracked in that section of Silvestri's "Assemble" cue.
it is definitely on the last track at the beginning in a lyrical statement with an oboe first and then in the strings, Shaun, somehow easy to miss because the harmonic backing and rhythmic is done more elusive than usual.
Then there is one spot where I bet there was a fast Cap-fanfare from Avengers Assemble in the temp, it is so similar, don't know where. But just a guess, maybe not.
And there is some motif which sounds almost like an inverted version when Cap is in the door at the farm, the camera behind him. That appears twice. Sounds like a modified version, but could also be an over-interpretation. Not sure.
I am sure due to the adaptions when Elfman came in there are some thematic remnants from Tyler's conception which are now hard to detect. There is I am sure a theme by Tyler for the team which vanished as main idea when Elfman came in.
Lots of spots where rests of that appear, also on the CD.
That ' s speculation, of course, but there is some traces which argue for that.
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Posted: |
May 7, 2015 - 6:47 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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I definitely heard the Silvestri Captain America theme at one point while watching the film, but I don't recall where and do not know if that cue appeared on the album. While Tyler's Tony Stark theme is all over this score, I did not hear his Thor theme, though I understand others have.
It seems that Elfman was brought in to really make this more of a sequel/franchise score, creating the new Avengers theme based upon Silvestri's material. He didn't ignore Tyler's work at all (he incorporates Tyler's Tony Stark and Ultron themes), so the score comes across as pretty consistent, despite the fact that it's something of a chimaera.
Thor's theme is not there, but the accompaniment of Thor's theme is used literally at 2.42 in "the battle", and that rhythmic idea preceding the five-note-fanfare from Thor is used as an ostinato in the end of that track, only that the second halfs of the units go up instead of down. Curious why Tyler did not use the fanfare or melody, but the backing of it.
All from Tyler's Thor 2.
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I also noticed a tracked moment from Silvestri's Avengers when Natasha is riding Hulk's back (after she tosses him into the pit), I think it's “I Got a Ride.”
What I find interesting about these tracked moments is that they weren't carelessly done, they're cues that incorporate themes relating to the specific characters. Cap's theme appears when Cap is onscreen, as does Natasha's theme.
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I also noticed a tracked moment from Silvestri's Avengers when Natasha is riding Hulk's back (after she tosses him into the pit), I think it's “I Got a Ride.”
What I find interesting about these tracked moments is that they weren't carelessly done, they're cues that incorporate themes relating to the specific characters. Cap's theme appears when Cap is onscreen, as does Natasha's theme.
The only three themes I got out of The Avengers were the main theme, Cap’s theme, and the helicarrier. (That last is more of a tune than a theme.) Either my ears are going, the themes are too complex for my simple understanding, or the themes just aren’t that strong. Is there an index someplace?
I liked the AOU score a lot. (I liked the Elfman stuff more than I thought I would.) But I wish the hero themes had been a little more “on the nose”. There should have been a really straightforward statement of all the themes at least once or twice. I listened to New Avengers I don’t know how many times before I realized that it opened with Cap’s theme. As someone who loves that theme more than any theme in the last 15 years that’s a pretty spectacular miss.
But man, that new Avengers theme is a hoot.
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The only three themes I got out of The Avengers were the main theme, Cap’s theme, and the helicarrier. (That last is more of a tune than a theme.) Either my ears are going, the themes are too complex for my simple understanding, or the themes just aren’t that strong. Is there an index someplace?
I don't know about any index, but in terms of other themes in The Avengers, Silvestri's score also carries over the mysterioso music for Hydra's alien tech experimentations for the Tesseract from Captain America (this actually opens the score), and a new Russian-flavored theme for Natasha that forms the basis of “Interrogation” and “Red Ledger,” and is heard in an action in “I Got a Ride,” and a theme for Tony Stark heard in “Stark Goes Green,” “Performance Issues” and “One Way Trip.”
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But then a weird guy here creates fake-accounts imitating me in another thread, mocking posts from many months ago, to make fun of me, which is kind of strange.
So I figured there was no interest,
and some people here don't like me tending to have much interest in music theoretical details and tending to
sound maybe a bit weird, and smart-ass, which I certainly do often.
Indeed, if you will, it is weird
Almost to a certain level disturbing that
one would be subject to mockeries in this fashion.
But it does, however, beg the question of who among us is the emanation
of the mockeries and whom is the recipient. the Answer also reveals who is not the bona fide?
And, to answer your question, I do not believe that people dislike
that we are tending to have much interest in music theoretical details. But others who have interests must know when they're terminologies and digital emanations do not
conform to our standards, intervention and stopping of discussion.
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Posted: |
May 11, 2015 - 1:04 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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But then a weird guy here creates fake-accounts imitating me in another thread, mocking posts from many months ago, to make fun of me, which is kind of strange.
So I figured there was no interest,
and some people here don't like me tending to have much interest in music theoretical details and tending to
sound maybe a bit weird, and smart-ass, which I certainly do often.
Indeed, if you will, it is weird
Almost to a certain level disturbing that
one would be subject to mockeries in this fashion.
But it does, however, beg the question of who among us is the emanation
of the mockeries and whom is the recipient. the Answer also reveals who is not the bona fide?
And, to answer your question, I do not believe that people dislike
that we are tending to have much interest in music theoretical details. But others who have interests must know when they're terminologies and digital emanations do not
conform to our standards, intervention and stopping of discussion.
As you have noticed, I already stopped to discuss, because I figured what you say by myself.
So creating a fake account name which is the same like mine except for an _ and posting nonsense with "my" name, and then creating other fake accounts to make such a fuss of it, that is your way to react.
That does not conform to reasonable moral standards, chicken-hearted pal. You still cowardly post with
one of that accounts only created to react on posts by me and don't have the guts to use your normal user-name here.
You are a little coward, hiding.
Your IP-adress is saved for some time. For web-masters here it is clear who you are. I think they don't care, but maybe some day your name will be revealed.
Rock on, pal, you managed that my interest to post and read here is reduced, so you succeeded.
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I´m sorry that this happened to you Mike. I enjoy your intelligents posts tremendously and hope that you will not stop visiting here.
Let this idiot not sabotage you.
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