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 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 8:54 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

My problem with Zimmer haters is what I ...er hate about all haters. These threads are conversations. If we were standing around having a talk about a composer, what is the value of someone walking up and saying it is no secret that I have no use for this composer (let alone start dumping on them)? The conversation ends and it becomes an argument about why we are even talking about this composer in the first place. There is something intrinsically wrong with someone who does this.

This is why I have seen so many leave this place and even new ones show up then walk away frustrated. There is got to be something in your head that has to have self control and be judicious. Argue about the music, sure, but these blanket opinions go nowhere and immediately become personal. Yeah I have heard a lot of Zimmer that sounds the same. But I can take a series of selected cues from ALL my favorite composers and line them up and have them sound ridiculously repetitious. They all have their own technique and "voice" that they rely on. How much they stretch that is the gray area where we form our opinion. That and how much we enjoy that basic sound they work from. Black and white concepts of this are for comic book minds, which may explain a lot.

 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

Maybe the real problem with Zimmer haters is redundancy.

A wise woman you are!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 9:23 AM   
 By:   Mr. Shark   (Member)

Well, personally I thought MAN OF STEEL was a wonderful film (Zac Snyder's direction stood head and shoulders above Nolan's Batman trilogy or any of the identikit Marvel/DC films of the last five years) and Zimmer's score complimentary the film perfectly, especially in the quieter moments.

 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

I´m not a Zimmer hater at all - but I hate the fact that his factory is dominating the movie score world with a particular sound.

That does not preclude me from liking some of those scores, MAN OF STEEL included.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Well, personally I thought MAN OF STEEL was a wonderful film (Zac Snyder's direction stood head and shoulders above Nolan's Batman trilogy or any of the identikit Marvel/DC films of the last five years) and Zimmer's score complimentary the film perfectly, especially in the quieter moments.

The entirety of Zac Snyder's directing ability could be contained in Christopher Nolan's pinky toe.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

Thank you, edw.

I like what Morricone says. He's right. Each composer does have his/her own voice and variations of that voice. I call it "signature style." I can certainly hear it in Goldsmith, Herrmann, Bernstein and a few others. And as Morricone pointed our, "haters" do tend to drive away some good members which is very sad.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 11:16 AM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)

A thread devoted to Zimmer and a pale attempt to troll for more controversy!

Kudos to OP!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 11:23 AM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)



So if you dont like Hans Zimmer, thats fine.Just dont buy his music and instead concentrate on what you DO like.


This is like saying "if you hate germs, that's fine, just stay in your sterilized environment."

--What you're ignoring is:
(1) that germs AKA "da Zimmer sound" are everywhere; and
(2) that shit is sometimes bundled with something you like -- case in point: I like Despicable Me but that Zimmer score is so fucking shitty that it almost ruined the cute movie for me.

And what's more, I could say,

So if you don't like the bitching about Zimmer, that's fine. Just don't read the bitching threads and instead concentrate on what you DO like.

Sounds fair to you?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 11:25 AM   
 By:   riotengine   (Member)

Well, personally I thought MAN OF STEEL was a wonderful film (Zac Snyder's direction stood head and shoulders above Nolan's Batman trilogy or any of the identikit Marvel/DC films of the last five years) and Zimmer's score complimentary the film perfectly, especially in the quieter moments.

The entirety of Zac Snyder's directing ability could be contained in Christopher Nolan's pinky toe.


HAH! I would have said ingrown toenail. wink

Greg Espinoza

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 11:38 AM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)

Well, personally I thought MAN OF STEEL was a wonderful film (Zac Snyder's direction stood head and shoulders above Nolan's Batman trilogy or any of the identikit Marvel/DC films of the last five years) and Zimmer's score complimentary the film perfectly, especially in the quieter moments.

The entirety of Zac Snyder's directing ability could be contained in Christopher Nolan's pinky toe.


Sac Zyder's "directing ability" is only suited to doing 30-second commercials. He does have a good ability to grab the attention of the ADD people.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 11:44 AM   
 By:   Michael24   (Member)

I'm certainly not a Zimmer hater, but Man of Steel is the first score of his that I've enjoyed in a very long time. (And I thought the film was terrific, too.) I don't have The Lone Ranger, but I could tell in the theater it was great, and certainly the only good thing about the movie.

I like a lot of his older music. Around the time of Gladiator, though, is when it seems he started changing his style, and "new Zimmer" just didn't work for me anymore. I like the man, but am generally just much more a fan of his '80s and especially '90s output.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 11:45 AM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

I do have to say a few things about Zimmer... he has produced and pushed film music in new and exciting direction.

Like all innovation, it's not always perfect or great or ideal, but he's definitely doing his job to forward the world of Film Music.

I like a lot of OLD Zimmer scores... his more orchestral... Lion King, Muppet Treasure Island, Gladiator, Prince of Egypt... these sorts of sounds.

Some of his more modern ones like Man of Steel, Batman, etc... do tend to bore me. Now that's not to say they don't have strengths or good points, but it's not a direction I like. I think it's too big, too self-important, too declarative. Now there are films where this is necessary... such as fantasy films. An example of a film that did well with this sound was "Tron Legacy." Although not Zimmer, it had many similar styling (orchestral mixed with synth, some bombast with driving melodies and beats).

His work in producing scores with up and coming composers, building a bridge to the future while imbuing it with his personal touches is almost like the composers of old having apprentices and passing on the craft.

All of these impress me about him. His work, especially modern, is not something I follow actively although I do like this and that from his modern repertoire but I think Zimmer's lasting impact won't be on what he does directly to film music (at least not his modern work in film), but in the people he's passing film scoring techniques to and what they influence in the future.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 12:22 PM   
 By:   moviescore1   (Member)

I don't have a problem with Zimmer, but I do think he has gotten stale in the last few years. Backdraft was the first Zimmer score I ever got and I loved that one. His 90's stuff was great. Highly original and a pioneer in modern film music. The problem now is there is a general lack of melody and his scores have become experiments in "sound design", rather than music. I actually really like what he did with Batman in creating a new unique sound for the character but Man of Steel was a complete misfire IMHO. He's starting to redeem himself with Rush and The Lone Ranger, but now I tend to approach a new Zimmer score with caution. I may hate or love it. I think a lot of the creativity that he used to have has been lost. That's why I gravitate towards some of his other Remote Control colleagues like John Powell, Henry Jackman, etc. They are much better composers than Zimmer and he's even admitted that.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 1:24 PM   
 By:   Michael24   (Member)

GoodMusician86 - Very well said, and more thoughtful than anything I've seen a Zimmer basher come up with. Much better than I could have put into words.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 1:30 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I do have to say a few things about Zimmer... he has produced and pushed film music in new and exciting direction.


Hardly new. Into the mainstream, perhaps.
But it's fairly certain that if Zimmer had not been the instigator, then someone else would have introduced mainstream audiences to tribal drums samples and faux-ethnic wailing.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 1:43 PM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I do have to say a few things about Zimmer... he has produced and pushed film music in new and exciting direction.


Hardly new. Into the mainstream, perhaps.
But it's fairly certain that if Zimmer had not been the instigator, then someone else would have introduced mainstream audiences to tribal drums samples and faux-ethnic wailing.


Extending what Octoberman said

Peter Gabriel did lots of synths and gated drums and wailing voices many years ago, he employed some of that in Temptation of Christ score (1988) , earlier in Birdy score (1984) and Security album (1982) and others. Zimmer just mainstreamed this early pop technique into bubble-gummy bombast scores like Gladiator. This was not innovative.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 1:45 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

If you limit his influence to such things, then I agree, others would have, but I mean much more broader strokes than this.

His clasically influenced bombast of a sonic experience, using synth, motives, and sounds to develop in a fully surrounding experience is something that we've come to expect in film now (although it's not something I personally prefer).

I know that many composers have, through the years, been directly or indirectly influenced by his work and many of his scores are still used for temp music, trailer music, or as action-drama cues.

I don't personally enjoy many of his newer melodically bare scores, but this is his path and I think it's fascinating how innovative he's being.

Williams will write a score that is unique to each individual film and in a way uses this to "push" the concept of a classically inspired film score, but Zimmer pushes (or pushed) in many directions.

I can find value in the effort, even if it doesn't always work

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 1:47 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Peter Gabriel did lots of synths and gated drums and wailing voices many years ago, he employed some of that in Temptation of Christ, earlier in Security and others. Zimmer just mainstreamed this early pop technique into bubble-gummy bombast scores like Gladiator. This was not innovative.


Quite right. I think a lot of composers owe a debt to Gabriel. Not just for being a pioneer with samples and the Fairlight CMI, but the man actually studied the ethnic origins of the sounds he was using and used them with respect and taste.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Peter Gabriel did lots of synths and gated drums and wailing voices many years ago, he employed some of that in Temptation of Christ, earlier in Security and others. Zimmer just mainstreamed this early pop technique into bubble-gummy bombast scores like Gladiator. This was not innovative.


Quite right. I think a lot of composers owe a debt to Gabriel. Not just for being a pioneer with samples and the Fairlight CMI, but the man actually studied the ethnic origins of the sounds he was using.


He is a really brilliant man, I have my older brother to thank for getting me into Gabriel, I think Security is one of the most brilliant and interesting pop/rock albums ever, the material is sometimes dense, put it pays off brilliantly. I would put the gated drums on Security up against the entire Man of Steel drum section any day, it would win easily - and that was 30 years ago.

And yes Peter was actually getting into those cultures that he was riffing sounds from.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 11, 2013 - 2:26 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)

His clasically influenced bombast of a sonic experience, using synth, motives, and sounds to develop in a fully surrounding experience is something that we've come to expect in film now (although it's not something I personally prefer).

Michael Bay's brainless explosions, blue and orange color schemes, low-angle 360 shots, hot babes in a golden sunset, racially stereotypical and offensively dumb characters and senseless production designs, using CGI, pyro-techniques, and Megan Fox to develop in a fully deafening experience is something that we've come to expect in film now.

Michael Bay is an innovative genius then.

 
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