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 Posted:   Jul 22, 2010 - 8:09 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I'd buy this as well but I was concerned about who would provide the guttural scream that Preacher lets out that leads into the Dream, Little One Dream cue. It's such an integral part of the moment that hearing simply the music wouldn't be the same. Maybe Mel Gibson?

Actually I'd prefer we had the option to edit out the Preacher vocals, even when he sings -- I'm afraid that (especially with someone else singing the hymn besides Mitchum) it'll disrupt the flow of Schumann's masterful composition, even if it is well-integrated in the film. Maybe if they incorporated the various vocal performances *into* the orchestral re-recording it could work, as Manderley suggested doing in the past with Abu's vocals in The Thief of Bagdad.

I certainly have no doubts of Bill absolutely *nailing* the orchestral performance, though.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2010 - 8:56 AM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

Mitchum had such a unique and frightening voice. I for one would miss it.Perhaps they could find someone who could almost duplicate that resonance. In any case,please let's have a re-recording. I know it won't be easy.But it is so worthy.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2010 - 9:37 AM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

...and another good thread ruined at birth.


Yavar


I wish I hadn't had to respond, but when someone hurls insane and, more importantly, completely false accusations, response must be made, I'm afraid. But you can thank the person who did the hurling for derailing this thread. It's all about him, you know.

I can tell you the following - I've been told by someone that there are acetates of the score - but not complete. I also am very good friends with the man who restored the film, and I believe he'd give me access to the M&E tracks for the rest. The problem is RCA - they have in perpetuity rights to the album and all the music from the film. So, the deal gets very convoluted. A new recording, done well, would certainly be a welcome surprise - it's a brilliant score and a brilliant film, and if you haven't read Preston's book on it, you really owe it to yourself to hunt it down.

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 6:58 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Thanks for the info -- it'd be wonderful even if part of the original recording survived. I won't hold my breath, though. It'll be amazing if someone is able to pull of an "Archival Release" of the score even if it has sound effects in some cues a la Satan Bug. I'd welcome a complete re-recording first, though, because I want it to sell as many copies for Tribute as it can...

RCA is Sony, right? Maybe if Kritzerland joined forces with LaLaLand on this one? Or FSM -- they've made deals with Sony too.

I haven't had the chance to read more than the very beginning of Preston's book. I did buy it from him at the film screening as I mentioned in my post above, but unfortunately it's still back in L.A. with most of the rest of my books and CDs for the time being.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 8:53 AM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Thanks for the info -- it'd be wonderful even if part of the original recording survived. I won't hold my breath, though. It'll be amazing if someone is able to pull of an "Archival Release" of the score even if it has sound effects in some cues a la Satan Bug. I'd welcome a complete re-recording first, though, because I want it to sell as many copies for Tribute as it can...

RCA is Sony, right? Maybe if Kritzerland joined forces with LaLaLand on this one? Or FSM -- they've made deals with Sony too.

I haven't had the chance to read more than the very beginning of Preston's book. I did buy it from him at the film screening as I mentioned in my post above, but unfortunately it's still back in L.A. with most of the rest of my books and CDs for the time being.

Yavar


It was very late when I wrote my post above yours - I just fixed some typos - I meant to say the man who restored the film, not the score.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 10:28 AM   
 By:   waxmanman35   (Member)

I have a vague recollection of someone claiming they rescued the music-without-dialogue tracks, possibly from RCA, only to have them destroyed in a basement flood. Can anyone recall such a tale? I've googled without success...

I had heard in the late 'sixties from a friend that a common acquaintance had the 35mm music/effects tracks. A few years ago Lukas inquired about this, I gave him the only lead I had, and he was able to contact the person..... who told Lukas that the tracks were destroyed in a flooded basement. I have met so many people over the years who had "rare scores" that were somehow lost, and all of them were bogus BS. The only true story I know of was a friend who I helped obtain tapes of the complete music tracks to VICTORY AT SEA. At the time I had no interest in the score, but a number of years later after I saw the series and realized how good some of the music was I contacted him. ...And learned that when he had moved he had confused some boxes of his music collection with boxes of garbage and....

As to the 'HUNTER acetates, Schumann's widow had them and copies have floated among collectors. The acetates are missing the long river sequence that was included in the Laughton album release.

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 10:33 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

It would be tough to reproduce the little girl's voice singing "Pretty Fly"--probably the most hair-raisingly beautiful part of the score. Even though Mitchum's voice works with the score at some key moments I think the music would survive without it. From what I've heard the album master only exists with Laughton's narration integrated into the music, and as much as I love Laughton it's impossible to enjoy that album for me because he so thoroughly overruns the music.

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 10:44 AM   
 By:   Ray Faiola   (Member)

I have met so many people over the years who had "rare scores" that were somehow lost, and all of them were bogus BS.

A colleague of Alan Barbour's at RCA claimed for years that he had the actual score recording that Max Steiner had supposedly recorded for the CAINE MUTINY album. Well, years of prodding and finally I got the reel-to-reel tape and it was a copy (yes - out of phase!) of the bootleg LP track!!

D'OH!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 1:11 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Well, John and Bill, it's not just me crying in the wilderness, now, it's Vox Populi. Will you heed us? Will you strike while the iron is heating up?

In the meantime, I think it would be lovely if Criterion would include a separate M&E track on the DVD. As it is, the whole Criterion gestalt should be wonderful, especially inasmuch as it will probably include Robert Gitt's celebrated presentation of highlights from the out-takes, entitled "Charles Laughton Directs THE NIGHT OF THE HUNTER."

For the record, the acetates originated not from the late widow of the late composer, but with Davis Grubb, author of the novel, who utilized them when writing the narration for Laughton on the RCA LP. (The problem with the score on the LP, BTW, isn't just that it's narrated but also that it's ABRIDGED. What's more, the RCA engineers played the tape ever-so-slightly sped up, thus affecting the pitch.)

Incidentally, Ed, my favorite line in AFRICA SCREAMS isn't Bud or Lou's, it's Mr. Besser's, "My tent is on fire!" Schumann wrote four outstanding scores for Abbott and Costello, my personal favorite being BUCK PRIVATES COME HOME.

-- PNJ

PS: Aside to You-Know-Who -- Answer your phone messages!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

I wanted to join the ranks and say that this has always been a favorite score of mine. Around 1977, I wrote a piece about this music for MIDNIGHT MARQUEE magazine. A powerful new recording would be a wonderful thing. I was first drawn to this film when it aired on Chicago's WGN in the 1970's. They used to show cut down versions of trailers to advertise whatever movie they were going to be showing. I remember being sucked in immediately by the music in the trailer, and just had to see the film. I was astounded. Such a unique film; such an odd mixture of reality and surrealism, sort of an Americana-noir. Schumann's music is a masterwork, providing the story with all kinds of subtext. That scene where Mitchum is about to kill Shelley Winters is like a nightmarish mini-ballet. And that's just one of so many great moments in that score.

I heard a tape of the surviving acetates years ago. Most of them seemed in pretty rough shape. Even if they were available for issue on CD, I don't know how well they could be cleaned up. (Of course I'd get one anyway in an instant).

I also wanted to mention that the (presumably sarcastic) idea mentioned in one of the posts on this thread about everybody contributing money to get their favorite score recorded hit a wrong note with me. I'm sure other labels receive suggestions all the time. I'm sure some of these labels actually ran with a few of those suggestions at one time or another. I don't know why someone should demean a fellow poster for making a suggestion to Tribute. We are smart enough to know that these things cost money and that all our wishes can't be magically fulfilled by Tribute, but there's no harm in making a suggestion, and I wish to thank cody1949 for throwing this idea out there. Sure, Tribute doesn't have unlimited funds to do every CD someone on this board suggests, but how else will they get a feel for what scores a good amount of people are yearning for if somebody doesn't express their feelings. Tribute obviously can make whatever decisions they feel are best, just like any other label.

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2010 - 1:21 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Well, John and Bill, it's not just me crying in the wilderness, now, it's Vox Populi. Will you heed us?

To be fair Preston whenever this score and film are mentioned (and they have been many times in this board's past) quite a few people chime in praising it and begging for a new recording. It even scored very high in Joel McNeely's "what next?" re-recording poll a couple years ago after his recording of North by Northwest came out, to the point where he said he wasn't familiar with it but would make sure to check it out based on the love for it.

I would of course love an isolated M & E track on the DVD, especially if the legalities for a CD release can't be easily worked out.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 12:53 AM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Dear Yavar --

I know the demand for this music is nothing new -- remind your friend John!

smile

Jim --

Thank you for your post, in all of its facets. Are back issues of your Midnight Marquee still available?

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 11:23 AM   
 By:   Scott   (Member)

Rumor has it that Criterion will be releasing the film on DVD and Blu-Ray by years end!

Also I hear that SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS is getting the Criterion treatment!!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 11:40 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Then hopefully Mr. Stromberg maybe you and your partners can set the wheels in motion.

Well from what I understand, one of the key elements that is slowing down this project, and others, is the slow response to certain Tribute CDs. My guess is these new projects will move along quicker if many play catch-up to their recent releases. May I recommend CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE. I am by no means a Steiner fan but this was astounding! Pick it up if you can, everybody!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 11:44 AM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

Preston:

First of all, I enjoyed immensely your book HEAVEN & HELL TO PLAY WITH, which I purchased a few years ago, and read with a great fascination and admiration for all of the background information you pulled together, which helped me appreciate an already appreciated film even more. I am so looking forward to the Criterion release of this film. I had heard rumors many years ago of a deluxe edition coming out with the Laughton behind-the-scenes footage. I had just about given up hope that it was ever going to see the light of day. Well, apparently, now when it comes out, it's going to be even better than yesteryear's rumors.

As to Midnight Marquee, I believe that that particular back issue (#26, the first issue of MIDNIGHT MARQUEE, right after the name of the magazine was changed from GORE CREATURES) is no longer available from Midmar Press, although it does turn up on Amazon and ebay. If you would like a xerox of the article, I'd be happy to send you a copy.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 11:49 AM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

AND TO THE FOLKS AT TRIBUTE:

If you DO consider the NIGHT OF THE HUNTER score, which is only about 35 - 40 minutes or so, perhaps you might consider as a companion score, music from Schumann's 1950s TV or 1955 feature version of DRAGNET, certainly his most well-known music.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   Ed Nassour   (Member)

AND TO THE FOLKS AT TRIBUTE:

If you DO consider the NIGHT OF THE HUNTER score, which is only about 35 - 40 minutes or so, perhaps you might consider as a companion score, music from Schumann's 1950s TV or 1955 feature version of DRAGNET, certainly his most well-known music.


Actually it was released in 1954.



Great score orchestrated by non other than Nathan Scott.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2010 - 11:56 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

When Nathan Scott passed away several months ago, Walter Schumann's daughter Nikki shared with me some happy childhood memories of the Schumann/Scott colloboration. I've passed this reminiscence on to Jon Burlingame at the Film Music Society for possible use in a Scott memorial in their periodical.

Personally, until the recent re-recording of Copland filmscore rarities, (currently awaiting disc release), I would have voted for OF MICE AND MEN as the companion piece on a CD of HUNTER. They're both important works of Americana, and I thought the presence of the long-overdue Copland might help focus the attention which is due Schumann's HUNTER music.

Frankly, in an ideal world, HUNTER should be paired on disc with the equally haunting choral music Schumann wrote for the Laughton/Gregory stage production of JOHN BROWN'S BODY. But it may simply be too impractical to imagine that an a capella chorus could be assembled, rehearsed and recorded by the same team which would be re-recording HUNTER. (To say nothing of negotiations with the Stephen Vincent Benet estate.) Alas.

I think the best compromise would be to include only a brief bit of DRAGNET, if at all, along with highlights from the various Abbott and Costello scores, AFRICA SCREAMS, THE NOOSE HANGS HIGH, BUCK PRIVATES COME HOME and THE WISTFUL WIDOW OF WAGON GAP. (Although such a suite might also be ideal on a CD of Skinner's ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN. That's if they don't pair the Skinner with Steiner's ARSENIC AND OLD LACE. Jeepers, this sort of planning and conceptualizing can sure get complicated!)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2010 - 12:04 AM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Jim, thanks for your kind offer. Where can I get in touch with you? (I think FSM will forward to me any e-mail you might write.)

-- PNJ

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2010 - 5:48 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)

When Nathan Scott passed away several months ago, Walter Schumann's daughter Nikki shared with me some happy childhood memories of the Schumann/Scott colloboration. I've passed this reminiscence on to Jon Burlingame at the Film Music Society for possible use in a Scott memorial in their periodical.

Personally, until the recent re-recording of Copland filmscore rarities, (currently awaiting disc release), I would have voted for OF MICE AND MEN as the companion piece on a CD of HUNTER. They're both important works of Americana, and I thought the presence of the long-overdue Copland might help focus the attention which is due Schumann's HUNTER music.

Frankly, in an ideal world, HUNTER should be paired on disc with the equally haunting choral music Schumann wrote for the Laughton/Gregory stage production of JOHN BROWN'S BODY. But it may simply be too impractical to imagine that an a capella chorus could be assembled, rehearsed and recorded by the same team which would be re-recording HUNTER. (To say nothing of negotiations with the Stephen Vincent Benet estate.) Alas.

I think the best compromise would be to include only a brief bit of DRAGNET, if at all, along with highlights from the various Abbott and Costello scores, AFRICA SCREAMS, THE NOOSE HANGS HIGH, BUCK PRIVATES COME HOME and THE WISTFUL WIDOW OF WAGON GAP. (Although such a suite might also be ideal on a CD of Skinner's ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN. That's if they don't pair the Skinner with Steiner's ARSENIC AND OLD LACE. Jeepers, this sort of planning and conceptualizing can sure get complicated!)


I have not heard anybody use the expression "Jeepers" since - well, since LEAVE IT TO BEAVER.... and it was corny even hearing it in re-runs in the 70's....

 
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