It's virtually inevitable, given that Westerns by nature deal with American history (albeit tangentially), that they include elements of musical folklore, traditional songs and melodies etc. Especially if the films are about the pioneers. Music was such an integral part of their (the pioneers') lives that in films you just had to have grandad on the harmonica, a barn dance and a good dose of the Shenandoahs. I find all that resistible too, as a listening experience, so I get your point, WA. Still, as I say, it was pretty unavoidable for so many films and scores.
Even in the non-pioneer-based plotlines, you might inevitably have some Spanish/ Mexican-flavoured passages which may not appeal to you, or a certain approach to "native American Indian" sounds - which were really mostly Hollywood inventions anyway, at least in the earlier movies. Personally I love those little touches of Spanish-based melody, and non-clichéd "Indians music" in scores.
Some of you have posted a lot of good examples of things which WA might like. I too love most of what Jerry Goldsmith did for Westerns. And Hugo Friedhofer has two of my top-20 scores in his Western canon (cannon?) - ONE-EYED JACKS, and BROKEN ARROW (which is amazingly "modern-sounding" for 1950).
Curiously - and I still don't know why - I've really gone off the Elmer Bernstein sound. I'll have to ponder on that.
How can one dismiss the whole genre as such? I mean, there are so many different types of western film music. Strangely, few of you have mentioned this crucial fact. There's the classic Coplandesque Americana style, and the spaghetti western style, but it doesn't stop there. Recent films like UNFORGIVEN, THE HOMESMAN, 3:10 TO YUMA, THE PROPOSITION, MEEK'S CUTOFF, SLOW WEST, BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN or even Horner's THE MISSING subscribe to some very different, often darker and more minimal ideas.
It would be easier to understand this type of criticism if the person had one particular 'western sound' in mind.
Different tastes and all that, but a lot of my favourite film music is for Western films. I don't necessarily think western scores are any different from any other type of film music, and some scores to me don't particularly sound like they were written for a western eg. Wyatt Earp, The Big Country, The Alamo to name but a few already mentioned, are just good dramatic sounding film scores.
Much as I love the score, do people class The Alamo as a western? I've never thought of it as one.
No wonder I like The Alamo and Wyatt Earp. They're not "western" scores.
We'll have to wait for WagAl to come back to us on this, but going on her previous posts I'm making an intelligent guess and inferring that she's probably referring to the "typical" (yes, I know - define that) sound of the "classic Western" (more inverted commas) up until the genre changed and expanded in the mid-to-late '60s, probably certainly before the likes of stuff like McCABE AND MRS MILLER (for example).
I think she's thinking of film music for Westerns which "sounds like" music for Westerns. Traditional Westerns with straight cowboys, horses, Indians and no the-times-they-are-a-changin' motor vehicles in them. It's a bit of a catch-all topic title though, but I like to believe that this Board is a big rowdy crowd down the pub, and someone has just said, "Y'know, I don't really like Horror scores", to which we all shout at the same time, "Hammer Horror? Scary music? Some of the most beautiful film music has come out of horror films!"
Wagner .... from what I know of your musical tastes, and your preferred classical composers, you need to check out Jerome Moross. He's head and shoulders above just about all the rest in this genre.
I'm sure you know the title music, but pay special attention to 'The Welcoming' and 'The Raid' in the suite here. His ecstatic skill wherever a horse operatic is encountered is positively visceral:
-00:00 = "Main Title" -02:36 = "The Welcoming" -04:15 = "Old Thunder" -05:32 = "The Raid - Parts 1 & 2" -07:38 = "Major Terrill's Party" -09:04 = "The War Party Gathers" -11:14 = "Ambush In Blanco Canion - Part 2" -12:56 = "End Title"
I know 'Gwangi' is not technically a Western, but Moross uses the same style, and there are cowboys. Check out this suite from the Prague people and James Fitz:
Your experience with HTWWW is not unusual, but nor should it be definitive. Newman had little say over the songs. It's an odd film too.
I think she's thinking of film music for Westerns which "sounds like" music for Westerns. Traditional Westerns with straight cowboys, horses, Indians and no the-times-they-are-a-changin' motor vehicles in them.
You mean stuff like:
It's a bit of a catch-all topic title though, but I like to believe that this Board is a big rowdy crowd down the pub, and someone has just said, "Y'know, I don't really like Horror scores", to which we all shout at the same time, "Hammer Horror? Scary music? Some of the most beautiful film music has come out of horror films!"
I then I retort, "Y'know, I don't really like current, 21st century, horror scores."
This is how it is for me and Western scores by any composer
No DANCES WITH WOLVES either?
Not really.
I actually did really like the Hateful Eight ouverture by Morricone, though again that wasn't exactly a howdy y'all themed piece.
Graham, I've learned some good things from this thread. For one, The Alamo is just a great score, hands down. I'm freeking out excited over the Tadlow, hope to get it for a Christmas gift this year. Duel in the Sun, too.
It's hard for some of us to actually think of the western as a genre that's had it's day as a MAJOR movie genre. Being born in '61 I grew up with westerns a a major genre for both films and tv, it really is as simple as that. I'm in the UK and I'd say westerns were equally as popular here as they were in the US. It's just one of those things.
Personally speaking I have to say that for a very long time, certainly before I left school altogether, in '77, I'd gone over to the dark side. That is.... the spaghetti western. And so today I have no single cd of an american western, but LOADS of Morricone's. However, despite this taste, I still love the likes of Bernstein, Tiomkin, Moross etc. These people are giants within the industry. I do have the odd compilation and like many US westerns, and their wonderful music.
So just for the record, what is your age? Because, you see, I really do think this comes into it, although I'm perfectly happy to stand corrected if you're not twenty or something.
So just for the record, what is your age? Because, you see, I really do think this comes into it, although I'm perfectly happy to stand corrected if you're not twenty or something.
I'm not terribly younger than you my friend! But definitely from a later era. I was more into the Omen, Halloween, Psycho, Boys From Brazil, Twisted Nerve, Rosemary's Baby, and Jaws as a youngster. Not so much the Westerns (including Star Wars).
WagnerAlmighty, let me know what you think of the YouTube samples I shared when you have a moment. Joan, I can understand some difficulty with Fielding but did you give a listen to the Lawman main title? IMO it is actually a more accessible score than Wild Bunch.
Alfred Newman is one of my favorite film composers, but even given that I couldn't get through How the West was won. Some of the music I really liked, but the down home thing (and songs) really got to me quick, and basically ruined it for me. I know, blasphemic.
This is how it is for me and Western scores by any composer, as revered as they are: Good, Bad, Ugly, High Noon...all of them. I want to like them so much, but the above foils my appreciation each time.
I'm just curious is anyone else feels similarly. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week!
WagnerAlmighty , that's my music you're talking about - and I think HTWWW is probably Newman's best score. I am a bit unsure of your criteria - scores with songs of the period, or, folksy sound, or what, but with some exceptions, I always thought such added, not detracted from the film - even the "yellow ribbon" and such in the John Ford trilogy. As you might suspect, John Ford to me is the foremost American director, not only for his westerns, but the remainder of his work - and even the somewhat primatives scores there did their duty.
I actually miss westerns because most were morally tales where the obligation to do right whatever the cost was expected, not the off gray of today's "heroes" who are too often are "ever man for himself".
The sound of bugles in the afternoon, that lonely main theme from the Alamo, the relentless beat of the main theme from High Noon, and more - yeah, that's that's my music, "Valance".
Yes, Yavar, I too hope she listens to all the unique youtube samples we posted. I did listen to your Lawman youtube. It seems rather modernistic, but I did like parts. Have you heard Hannie Caulder? Seems like we both love The Attack from Quigley and Lonesome Dove.
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