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 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 4:47 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

Can`t wait to read up on your previous discussions!
Thanx for the links!

I was SOOO rooting for a Faith spin off!! She was my favorite character.
And I wonder why the hell that never happened?? :O Was it because of Tru Calling?

I am still open for new spin-offs today. All though the actors may have aged quite a bit.
The ones who played vampires/demons can never reprise their roles again. But the humans could at least do cameos, or something. What I would love to see today, is a show about young Giles. Would love to see more of his backstory.
His Ripper time, how he became a Watcher etc. They could mix it with stories from today. Anthony Head could very much still be Giles today.

Or maybe an ancient spin-off about one of the first Slayers. Would love a show from the 1800s!

There are so many possibilities!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 7:13 AM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

Zerone, it was hard on our early FSM group to lose Buffy, but for a while we had Angel, and then that was cancelled. I never did read the comic books. I wanted the real deal.

Of course, now the characters have aged. If there was a reboot, it would have to be with younger actors.


We know who lives and dies in the finale of Buffy. (Love that finale music.) The finale of Angel was frustrating and yet kind of neat. Hope Angel slayed the "dragon" and that the others lived, but...we will never know. I'm sure that there are FSM threads on that finale too.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 7:47 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

We know who lives and dies in the finale of Buffy.

Actually, no, since "Angel" undid one of those.


By the way, Whedon also did an official season or two in the comics for "Angel", too (I think he handed it off later). It's not bad and it does answer questions about the series finale. It's certainly better than what he did with BtVS in the comics.


For those who don't want to read it, here's what I recall:
The dragon can speak, Angel knew it; they were communicating telepathically, as I recall. He rode Cordedlia. That's what he named the dragon.

Los Angeles went to Hell. Literally. Taking a page right out of the "Ghostbusters 3" film idea we never got.

While they were battling, Gunn was dragged off by vampires and turned into a vampire. He was quite bitter about it and that nobody was there to help him.

Due to Wesley's contract with Wolfram & Hart, he came back as a ghost (like another character in the series) and tried his best to help Angel. Then he gave his final walk away.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 10:35 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

^
That Angel bit was actually very interesting! Would have loved to see that for season 6!

Never read the comics. I tried to read Buffy, season 8, but then I stopped when one of the characters had become a giant during the summer...WTF?! lol!

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Dawn became a giant after having sex with a guy who is a Thricewise (I never did find out what that was).

Then she morphed into centaur.

Then she became normal, had a relationship with Xander and they moved in together. At which point Buffy realized she had feelings for Xander. Even though she's not over Angel. Even though she's not over Spike. Even though she's now a bisexual in the comics.


Seriously, Whedon screwed the show over in comics form.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

I can`t believe all the crazy shit that happens in the comics!
Imagine if they actually made season 8 like this for tv! haha!

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 10:56 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Oh, no -- it's still going. As far as season eleven in the comics, I think.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2018 - 11:28 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Ugh...I loved the show so much and I thought it was cool that Whedon continued it in comics form. I've never been a comics person but I always considered checking them out sometime...now I definitely won't! smile

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 3:01 AM   
 By:   ZerOne   (Member)


I was SOOO rooting for a Faith spin off!! She was my favorite character.
And I wonder why the hell that never happened?? :O Was it because of Tru Calling?


Eliza Dushku turned it down for several reasons:
1.) She was in her early 20s and didn't just want to be tied to that one character and take on different parts.
2.) Joss told her he was not going to be as involved as with Buffy. She wasn't so comfortable with doing a Faith series where Joss would barely be involved.
3.) She felt that, coming out straight of Buffy, expectations were too high for it. She thought the show and Buffy as a character were so iconic that it was difficult to step into that universe with another slayer series and not disappoint.

As much as I like Dollhouse, sometimes I wonder how great it would have been if Eliza and Joss had reunited to do a Faith series instead, that actually also would have been the perfect time to revive the Buffy universe in 2009, only a couple of years after the end of Angel.

I can`t believe all the crazy shit that happens in the comics!
Imagine if they actually made season 8 like this for tv! haha!


They never would have been able to continue the show like that due to budget restrictions. That's where the comics went wrong, they tried really hard to take advantage of not having to deal with budgets that they had Giant Dawn or Willow and Buffy flying like Superman or whatever, but that was simply not the show that Buffy was while it was still on.

I think it's somewhat telling that some of the best Whedon seasons (Angel Season Five, Dollhouse Season Two) had limited budgets, but were still very compelling and fun (and good-looking too).

Additionally, season eight was so much bigger in scope since Buffy and co. are in charge of so many slayers and operating around the world too, but that took away from what was so special about Buffy, namely that she was a normal girl facing problems that all adolescents face, while at the same time fighting monsters at night.

I know, for the season 9 comic books onward, they tried to bring it back down to what Buffy was initially about, but there is still so much stuff that just feels like bad fan fiction, resurrected TeenGiles or Buffy and Spike actually reuniting and dating, noooo, as much as I loved their interaction on the show, let's just move on from that; and of course the lack of compelling new Scoobie Gang members. Like if the show had continued there would have been new lasting characters. And it's also telling that the comics decided to get rid of the less popular new characters such as Kennedy or Wood.

Zerone, it was hard on our early FSM group to lose Buffy, but for a while we had Angel, and then that was cancelled. I never did read the comic books. I wanted the real deal.


And the sad thing is also that, while there have been other shows comparable to Buffy since the end of both shows, there still hasn't been a show with the same great characters and writing. I mean, I guess, Arrow sometimes reminded me of Angel (mostly because they share Batman-DNA), but the characters on that are kind of lame and it has gotten quite repetitive and it's rarely funny.

And the thing the most painful about the Angel cancellation is that they were never able to do more with the whole Fred/Wesley/Illyria storyline. That was one of the most compelling storylines on the show and it only lasted like 7 episodes.


By the way, Whedon also did an official season or two in the comics for "Angel", too (I think he handed it off later). It's not bad and it does answer questions about the series finale. It's certainly better than what he did with BtVS in the comics.


Joss wasn't quite as involved in that one though, I think he only gave some story ideas. I only remember Spike being like some sort of Hugh Hefner type in one of the first issues which bothered me so much that I didn't keep reading, but you say, it's readable? Should I give it another chance?

And maybe to get back to the music:

I thought the scores on both Buffy and Angel were just really great, though the Buffy score stood out more, in my opinion, but that might also be, because 1.) there were several composers who all had their own style, so the score was not quite as consistent as on Angel, where Robert Kral was the main composer for all seasons, and 2.) Angel became so plot-heavy later on as opposed to Buffy, which was most of the time very much based on emotion, and 3.) since Angel was more of a typical hero tale, the show was a bit more limited musically.

That doesn't mean however that I don't want another ANGEL soundtrack. Fingers crossed that La La La might also get interested in an Angel set if the Buffy set sells well, even though they noticed how "passionate" Buffy fans can be lol razz (I am referring mostly to me, acathla razz) . The early season one cues from Chris Beck would be lovely, the score from the Waiting in the Wings ballet episode please, all the moody cues from Angel season four, particularly Spin the Bottle too, and season 5 stuff. Plus those songs written by David Greenwalt, the Cordy theme song and the song that this girl sings in front of the Hyperion hotel in season three before she turns into a demon who wants to eat babies. lol That being said, even if there will never be another Angel set, we got quite a cool soundtrack from Rounder too, I just wish there wasn't as much Pylea stuff on there.

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 4:06 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

I too hope for another eventual Angel release because there is plenty more good music in that series.

But mostly because I really like Christophe Beck's Angel theme, and was disappointed that it only appeared on one track on the album. That theme was used throughout the series, and it would be nice to have more variations on it.

But let us hear this Buffy set first!!!

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 9:17 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Joss wasn't quite as involved in that one though, I think he only gave some story ideas. I only remember Spike being like some sort of Hugh Hefner type in one of the first issues which bothered me so much that I didn't keep reading, but you say, it's readable? Should I give it another chance?

In my opinion, yes, but it's been years since I read it. And I don't recall if he tied it up with one season or more. I guess sI'll need to fish them out and re-read them.



There was one good thing to come out the BtVS seasons comics:

Giles left everything he had to Faith, so when he died she would never have to suffer or be poor again. That's nice. Makes me wonder, giving that we knew from the TV series he had a father's love for Buffy, what if anything he left to her.

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)


That doesn't mean however that I don't want another ANGEL soundtrack. Fingers crossed that La La La might also get interested in an Angel set if the Buffy set sells well, even though they noticed how "passionate" Buffy fans can be lol razz (I am referring mostly to me, acathla razz) . The early season one cues from Chris Beck would be lovely, the score from the Waiting in the Wings ballet episode please, all the moody cues from Angel season four, particularly Spin the Bottle too, and season 5 stuff. Plus those songs written by David Greenwalt, the Cordy theme song and the song that this girl sings in front of the Hyperion hotel in season three before she turns into a demon who wants to eat babies. lol That being said, even if there will never be another Angel set, we got quite a cool soundtrack from Rounder too, I just wish there wasn't as much Pylea stuff on there.


---------------

I really hope I didn't scare of LLL to ever wanna get involved with the Buffyverse again! lol!

An Angel box set would be so great! And yes, I would also love Chris Beck's cues from season 1. Specially the score from "I Will Remember You". The version he did for the Buffy/Angel love theme during THAT last scene is so beautiful. I actually like that one more than Close Your Eyes. I've probably watched this scene a 1000 times just to listen to the score! lol!

And I was also disappointed that they (Rounder) only included that one very short version of Angel's heroic theme.
The theme is so epic and even in the pilot there was other (and longer!) version which was much better than "I'm Game". Robert Kral carried on with it after Beck left.
There's also a great scene in one of the very last episodes (I dont remember which) where they have this talk about the final fight and where they all have to chose to be in it even though they might get killed and everyone raises their hand. In this moment Kral actually brought back Doyle's "Hero" theme! Goosebumps!
I think that track ("Hero") sounds very "Beck" and I was surprised to see that Kral was credited for it on the soundtrack. Imo, his best work! it's right up there with Beck's "Close Your Eyes" and "Sacrifice".

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 11:57 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

There's also a great scene in one of the very last episodes (I dont remember which) where they have this talk about the final fight and where they all have to chose to be in it even though they might get killed and everyone raises their hand. In this moment Kral actually brought back Doyle's "Hero" theme! Goosebumps!
I think that track ("Hero") sounds very "Beck" and I was surprised to see that Kral was credited for it on the soundtrack. Imo, his best work! it's right up there with Beck's "Close Your Eyes" and "Sacrifice".


I remember that cue, and I was blown away that Kral brought back Doyle's theme from "Hero" when he makes his own sacrifice. It's as if Angel and Wesley are remembering him in that moment, as they prepare themselves for the same potential fate. Definitely Kral's best theme IMO, and a great moment in the show. I actually prefer it to those two Beck pieces, even. Here's hoping LLL does an Angel set, definitely.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

A set of Beck's work for "angel" would be for me, but overall I didn't enjoy Kral's work enough to want a set of his work.

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 12:07 PM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

There's also a great scene in one of the very last episodes (I dont remember which) where they have this talk about the final fight and where they all have to chose to be in it even though they might get killed and everyone raises their hand. In this moment Kral actually brought back Doyle's "Hero" theme! Goosebumps!
I think that track ("Hero") sounds very "Beck" and I was surprised to see that Kral was credited for it on the soundtrack. Imo, his best work! it's right up there with Beck's "Close Your Eyes" and "Sacrifice".


I remember that cue, and I was blown away that Kral brought back Doyle's theme from "Hero" when he makes his own sacrifice. It's as if Angel and Wesley are remembering him in that moment, as they prepare themselves for the same potential fate. Definitely Kral's best theme IMO, and a great moment in the show. I actually prefer it to those two Beck pieces, even. Here's hoping LLL does an Angel set, definitely.

Yavar


-------

I actually get goosebumps even thinking about that scene/moment!
Now I have to watch this episode again. Haven't watched Angel (except "I Will Remember You" of course razz ) for several years! Luckily I have it all on dvd smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 1:34 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

A set of Beck's work for "angel" would be for me, but overall I didn't enjoy Kral's work enough to want a set of his work.



Clean out your ears. smile

Sure, it's not all amazing. But there's definitely enough material for a set culled from all five seasons of the show.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 4:26 PM   
 By:   ZerOne   (Member)

Omg, Doyle's theme (RIP Glenn Quinn). That was an amazing piece of music, really enhanced a scene that was already great as it was written.

And while we are speaking of Doyle, I think, we can all agree that Angel had the best death scenes on television?

"Too bad we will never know, if this is a face you could learn to love." - JUMP, DIE cut to video tape - "Is this it, am I done?"

"Angel, this baby is the one good thing we ever did together. Protect it." BAM, stake to heart, end.

"Oh, and you're welcome."

"Wesley, why can't I stay?"

"You kill me, a flunky? Angel kills me!"

"Do you want me to lie to you now?" - "Yes."


The only death I didn't like as much was Lilah's, mostly because the character should lived a little longer, but well, "Why do you think I let him out you stupid bitch" was also a great moment.

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 5:20 PM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

Yes! Angel really had great deaths! Very emotional! And unforgettable!


I've just rewatched Buffy the movie for the first time in probably 20 years (my God, what a horrible movie!! lol!) to check out the score. I think there is like 19 minutes of score in total and to me, 90% of it all was quite crap.
Nothing special. Like season 1 standards almost. Much of it was just really looooong notes and such. I dont think there will be too much of movie score in the box set.

Perhaps they've made suite with a few cues just as bonus, or something?
That would actually be a nice "extra" to have in our collection.

There was one scene though which had a great cue! A scene between Buffy and her Watcher.
I really hope this one's included smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 5:45 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Clean out your ears. smile

Sure, it's not all amazing. But there's definitely enough material for a set culled from all five seasons of the show.

Yavar


I did say overall. Overall does not mean there are not exceptions.

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 5:52 PM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

Oh I just remembered another great cue from Angel! In the season 1 episode Parting Gifts (I think it's this episode) there is a montage (with score) where Kate is studying Angels past. Great and powerful score!
Not sure if it's Beck or Kral though. Really wish this was included in the soundtrack.

And also a scene from season 2 (I think) of which I dont remember the episode. It's the last scene and one of the characters has become the owner/CEO/boss/devil or something (I really need to rewatch this show! haha!).
And while he's in his office at the end of the episode looking out the window (or is he sitting at his desk...?) there's a quite evil sounding cue which sounds great. Am I making any sense? lol!

 
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