The Debate Goes On

1M1: 8/31/99

By Jason Foster

First off, let me start off by saying that I was very surprised by the number of responses I got regarding last week's column about long CDs and complete scores. I was particularly taken back by the number of negative comments. Not that I expected everyone to agree with me, but I just didn't think people would care so much about the topic - at least not to the point of suggesting that I had no right contributing to this website because of my opinion on the issue, which a few people did. I'll try to elaborate more on a few things people asked about from last week's column when we come to the feedback portion of today's column.

Also, I think some people were left with the idea that I'm opposed to any score on CD running longer than, say, an hour. That's not true. I have nothing against releasing "expanded" scores. There are a number of scores that have great unreleased cues that I'd love to see available. I'll talk more about that later in the column. I probably should have pointed out that I don't mind a full-score release of something where the whole score runs at like 60 minutes or less - just as long as the music is both good, and varied enough that most cues are interesting enough to stand on there own. Scores like PATTON and PLANET OF THE APES fall into this category. But what I'm against is these 120 minute scores where 50 percent of the music is interchangeable and just seems to be going through the motions. Then there's about 20 percent of the score that consists of a half-dozen or so transition-type cues where the music is pretty much the same (melodies, phrasings, tempos, etc.), and sometimes being literally identical. That leaves 30 percent of music that will seem fresh and interesting. In most cases, give me that 30 percent and I'll be happy.

But a score doesn't even have to be very long for this to take effect. For instance, David Shire's complete score to MAX DUGAN RETURNS runs about 45 minutes, give or take. I would say there's about 15 minutes of interesting music in the entire score - and that's NOT because the rest of the score is "bad." There's just a lot of material that is repeated, sometimes only slightly varied and sometimes seemingly repeated verbatim. If I can get all the major elements of the score in that 15 minutes, I see no reason to need the rest of the score for listening purposes, as it offers nothing new.

I also look at it like I view that long version of SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE that makes its way onto TV from time to time. The extra parts are cool to see since they're part of SUPERMAN, but they don't add anything substantial and at times cause the movie to drag. It's not hard to tell why they were left out and, in the end, the "edited" version makes for a much more fulfilling movie.

Now, onto some of the letters...

>From <Gareth.Hughes@astrazeneca.com> (Hughes Gareth):

I've been resisting making comment about poorly represented scores on CD but I can take it no longer. I remember as a youngster being sorely disappointed when I got my vinyl copy of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom score home and found the piece of music I wanted it for was not on the recording !!

This was also the case with the Willow soundtrack which also missed some of my favourite pieces of music. As a recent example, this was compounded when Varese's Starship Troopers was also missing cool pieces of music on the CD release -

And just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I was short changed on Don Davis' incredible Matrix score which didn't even include the piece playing over Neo and Agent Smith's showdown in the subway station !!

Admittedly we cannot all like every single note of every single score - so the solution is easy - SKIP THE TRACK if you don't like part of it !!

At least if it's on the disc you can choose to listen to it or not - rather than wishing the release had been more comprehensive which you cannot do anything about !!

So please, no more about picking only parts of scores for the releases (Varese take note !!) and saying this is OK. Let's have all of the score then at least we can skip over the tracks 'some of us don't like' - but at least this way, none of us will be wishing after lost pieces of music we will probably never get !! Sorry, but this is a particular bugbear of mine.

I thought the "showdown" cue from THE MATRIX is on the CD. It's been a while since I've seen the film, but if it's the music I'm thinking of, it's in the track called 'Anything is Possible.'

>From <DSPY007@aol.com> (Randall Derchan):

I agree with you that the complete soundtrack series is a joke. Willow was the first epic soundtrack I couldn't get all the way through. Most Horner scores are too long. A soundtrack should be 42 to 50 minutes in length when they are produced. If the soundtrack is a restoration and archival recording then the complete score is necessary. I don't think Star Trek I was your best example since I think almost every note is worthwhile. Not every Jerry Goldsmith score is like that though. Even King Solomon's Mines was too much. The shorter version, not the US LP, was a more enjoyable CD. Sometimes film music becomes tiring and it needs variety and pace to make an album work. So many CDs today are not produced well. It's either too much or not enough.

Pacing is so very important in keeping a score CD interesting. An example that I think accomplishes this perfectly is the Varese CD of Jerry Goldsmith's RUDY. The whole CD is just over half and hour and each cue seems to have its own identity. Both the intimate music and the "football" music are properly sequenced so no one particular musical mode goes on for too long. This is one of only a few albums in my collection that's a since to get through in one sitting. In addition, there might be a total of five minutes of music from the film that's not on the CD. And half of that consists of short statements of the theme that can be found in almost identical form in other cues on the album. There is one cue, however, that I do wish had been included on the album. It's a relatively short cue for one of Rudy's training montages (maybe 1:30 long) that contains a nice string variation of the main theme that's not found anywhere on the album. But it absence has never really affected my opinion of the CD.

>From <rejemy@inworldvr.com> (Jeremy Friesen):

I'm going to have to disagree with you about complete score releases. Ok, first off, I agree with you, lots of scores would make for a pretty boring and unlistenable complete score album. But here's the thing for you to remember: We have different tastes in music! You'd have to nail me to the floor with the stereo system out of reach to get me to listen to he complete score to Planet of the Apes, (or even a little part of it!) On the other hand, I would love to have the complete score to Willow, in movie sequence and all. There's nothing wrong with the current score release, it just could be better. Granted, the complete score to Willow isn't for everyone, but then again, the 70 minutes Willow score isn't for everyone either. Same goes for Planet of the Apes, Star Trek the Motion Picture, and everything else.

>From <01270767@3web.net> (Brian Martell):

I will cautiously agree with you. Cautiously. Meaning that I don't really agree with you...while agreeing with you.

Yes, not every score needs to be "complete." But, if you can put 74 minutes (at least) on a CD, and there's 74 minutes of music, give it to me. I'll listen (twice if I doze off the first time) and pick the bits I like and use that magical program feature. Yes, those "reuse" fees do limit releases. But with Williams (who usually gives us at least 60 minutes), Horner (ibid) and Goldsmith (so often limited to...limited CDs--which, with some of his work lately isn't a bad thing; but when it's a good one {SMALL SOLDIERS etc} it's damn frustrating!) I feel the market easily allows for the full CD's worth, if not a 2 disc set, and this should be done.

So you were bored with ST:TMP at 100 minutes. Yea, maybe I'd be too; then again maybe not. I'd be happier with two CDs of Goldsmith's work vs. the set we got with the unwanted INSIDE STAR TREK second disc. In the STAR WARS vein, there is no excuse for not releasing EPISODE 1 as a 2 CD set.

This issue is the ol' "6 of one, half a dozen of the other" scenario. The bottom line is if I get to choose the scores to be released fully, then I will agree with you fully. But since that's not the case, I know where you're coming from, but I'd rather have all, or as much as will fit, and program from there.

I got several letters like this where people said, "I agree with you, but I don't agree with you." I must admit that I've always wondered why many of Horner's scores end up with 70+ minute albums. I know he's recorded a lot with the London Symphony Orchestra, but he's also recorded a lot of scores with union players. Even before he became "famous" with TITANIC, his albums were usually longer than most.

>From <Jeff.Downs@disney.com> (Jeff Downs):

I think people want the complete score of a particular movie so they can have it, not necessarily because they want to listen to it all at one sitting. Do people (besides people reviewing a CD) really sit down and listen to a score from beginning to end, doing nothing else except listening to that CD? I do most of my CD listening at work, with constant interruptions, or at home while reading. I personally would much rather have a complete score just for insurance. I trade have a cue I want with ten minutes of unexciting or boring music added, than have a tighter score with the cue I want left off.

>From <dpcorkum@ns.sympatico.ca> (David Corkum):

Speaking for myself, I very rarely pop a CD in my player and listen to it from beginning to end. There's usually some favorite moments I listen to every time, but as to what else I listen to it tends to vary. And the more music to choose from, the more I tend to re-discover each time. So the notion that a score release has to be arranged so it's always a single, coherent listening experience is very limiting in my view. Most scores have at least a few dull cues, or ones where the repetition is excessive. This stuff is produced for technical reasons, after all, not as entertainments by themselves. So a little trimming is usually a good thing. But excluding that, the more a CD contains, the more fun it is each time it's played.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on one point. Although you may rarely listen to a whole CD in one sitting, I think most CDs are meant to be heard this way. You always hear composers or singers talk about how they put together an album in a certain way so that it creates the ideal listening experience with respect to pacing and atmosphere. I've read several times where John Williams has said this. Therefore, can't we assume that the composer/song writers wanted us to hear the music this way? Even if that's not how we choose to do it, perhaps that's the way it was intended. If you want to look at it like any other form of "art," movies aren't supposed to be watched halfway through and then stopped. Paintings and sculptures are supposed to be seen in one viewing. Why not film scores? However, I think my argument begins losing validity when a score spills over onto a second CD. This includes "archived" scores like BEN HUR, the "special editions" of the STAR WARS TRILOGY, and a few others.

>From <miawemfam@worldnet.att.net> (Eric Wemmer):

I have really enjoyed your articles and look forward to them. Just for what it's worth, let's see what you think of this; here are the scores that I think really deserve the expansion: Return to Oz, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (done right, fully, and with better sound.), Star Trek 5, Explorers, Total Recall, Omen 3: The Final Conflict. There are others, but these are the ones that really stand out to me. What about you? I noticed you didn't really name some scores that you thought deserved the royal treatment. How 'bout it?

Well, here's my list:

BACK TO THE FUTURE - The entire score runs under and hour and the music is excellent. I'm glad that Varese has done the re-recording, but I'd still like to see the original tracks released.

INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM - Like many other fans, there's some good stuff here that I'd like to see released. Perhaps not a "complete" release, but rather a well done expanded edition.

INNERSPACE - Again, I'm merely taking a number among a group of people who want this score expanded on CD. But, again, I wouldn't be in favor of a complete CD for this score (too much repetitive music for The Cowboy). Maybe a nice 45-50 minute score-only album would be nice.

STAR WARS: THE PHANTOM MENACE - If this score is released in complete form as part of the STAR WARS saga, I have no objections since the other three films received the same treatment. It only ranks third in terms of my favorite STAR WARS scores (both in and out of the film), but there are several good cues I wish were on the CD. So I guess I'm in favor of any expansion of this score.

I'm sure I could think of more, but those are the ones that came to mind first. Thanks to everyone who took the time to write in. I always enjoy reading your comments, even the negative ones. And by the way - for those who asked, I DO NOT have a copy of that 100+ minute STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE mentioned in last week's column. I got the chance to hear it once and took advantage of it, as I'm sure everyone would. But I want to clear this up - I like that score and I'm glad it was recently expanded. It was just a bit of a bear to get through in complete form, as hard to believe as that may be.

See you next week.

Feedback: jgfoster93@hotmail.com