The Length of CDs Mail Bag

Compiled by Lukas Kendall

Goodness gracious. This will get 'em talking....

From: Brian Martell <01270767@3web.net>

I would love to vote in the poll, but I can't--I'd prefer a combo. I just want all the music.

As to avoiding the quality of music for quantity, that's distorting my comment. I know Williams music is going to be good. I know it. That's why I want all of it. How it's arranged, or segued is of no concern to me. Again; I want the music--I like what John, Jerry, and the others write.

In STAR WARS, the music I always loved was the quiet Vader/Force, Leia/Luke themes playing under the scene in Ben's hovel. That is the music I wanted to hear. Had to wait 20 years for that. There's an excuse in 1977--heck, they cramed that soundtrack full of great stuff. Just not the one cue I really wanted.

Same with EMPIRE, I always loved the violin "riffing" as Luke has his heritage revealed and ponders whether to leap or not. I think it's less that a few seconds, but that cue really grabbed me. Again, waited years. Again an excuse.

I KNOW that there will be similar cues in PHANTOM. I'm too old to wait 20 years, and today I shouldn't have to.

Sean Carpenter makes a good arguement, and it's fine if you have all the music you want on a score release. I hang with a number of socre collectors, and they all think as I. Just give us the music. We'll take it from there. Why not release all the music. Then let us "program" away on our CD players. That way everyone can be happy.

To try to make my point clearer--I don't think I did in my previous response--any other film, 75 minutes would be fine. PHANTOM's a special case (they sell it that way) so make it special. I don't care how you put the music on a CD, just put it on the CD. I like quality as much as the next guy. So give it to me. All of it. If some of it's crap, let me edit it out on my machine, don't do it for me. Someone's going to miss their favorite bits that way.

Also, in an aside, Goldsmith's album of PATTON is great, but I love "An Eloquent Man" and we know how long I had to wait for that.

I don't think I'm wrong to want as much music as possible. Again, two CDs allow Williams the room to organise his music as he likes--I do too--and have cues of more "background" variety on the disc as well. And I also feel that with the demand for STAR WARS stuff, they should have done it.

Then again, I know--I really know--that we will get PHANTOM MENACE Vol. II when the video is released in November, so maybe I should just shut up about it. Either way, I can't wait for May 4th to roll around, because I'm buying this score (one disc or 12) and I know it's gonna be good.

Enough for now, and this topic. Add an item to the vote which has "all the music, arranged in a way that makes it as pleasant to listen to" and I'll vote that way.

From: "Michael Schuermann" <mschuermann@bigfoot.com>

Well, I thought I'd chime in on this whole debate. I'm in an interesting position in that I once was enormously against anything but the complete score! You see, I'm the proprietor of the Episode 1 Complete Score Campaign at http://members.tripod.com/episode1score/ However, in the past couple months, while remaining in contact with Sony Classical and Lucasfilm, my opinions on the matter have changed. At first I wanted everything released on May 4th! I'm a huge fan of not only John Williams' work, but film music in general. I love that feeling you get when Luke and Vader's Lightsaber battle comes on (or any other part of the film music repertoire that is as chill inducing).

After discussions about the matter, as well as the aforementioned talks with Sony and Lucasfilm, I've found my opinion slowly changing on the whole complete score campaign. True, the fans in general would eat up a 2-disc complete score set at a cost of probably 35-40 dollars, but the whole point behind Star Wars now is one of everyone getting to take part. Look at the ticketing policies for the upcoming film, for example. To release the single disc makes the score accessible to so many more people who may go out and pick up more score discs later, thusly sending a message to companies that there is money to be made in film score, giving us fans longer releases. And some may say, "why not release a two different sets concurrently?" Well, this won't work for a number of reasons, but one sticks out like a sore thumb:

The cost: The cost of this would be just enormous. And they'd never, ever, justify it. Let's face it, given the choice, a large number of film score fans would still pick up the single disc, and even if not, we number far too few to justify the artwork, mastering, and production costs of that second disc.

Rest assured folks, this one disc is wonderful, this one disc is bound to satisfy everyone's appetite for the music. If we all want a good cause, then start writing Lucasilm, asking for a DVD release of the orginal trilogy as well as Episode 1 and beyond. With this, tell them we want isolated scores and plenty of extras (as well as perhaps a commentary track from John Williams!) I think in this day and age this a much more justifiable request, as the cost will get made up no matter what (and it will still be palatable for the evryday consumer!) I'll be updating the complete score campaign site with all this, so check it out for the info if you are interested!

From: Timothy Kurkoski <kurkoskt@oit.edu>

I don't like either of the choices on the current poll. I agree with Mr. Carpenter that sometimes a complete score, presented in order, etc., is not a very good listen as a CD. I also have to agree with some of Mr. Martell's points, though. Sometimes, especially when the score is one we know and love (like Star Wars, Patton, Psycho), it's fun to hear the WHOLE score and pick out the intricacies of it, to break down how the composer apporoached the film as a whole, not just the main themes. The rest of the score beyond the themes may not be memorable, but it gives us a better appreciation of some of the less exciting aspects of our favorite composers' art.

Now for the most part I found myself agreeing with Mr. Carpenter and I though Mr. Martell was talking out his ass. I don't think any blame should be put on Lucas or Williams for releasing a single CD. I don't think that Star Wars should "set the standard" for film score albums- I think the length of the album should reflect the score and how the composer feels it is best presented.

Only in the case of Star Wars do I happen to agree with Mr. Martell. Where would we be today without the concert versions of the Imperial March and the March of the Ewoks (or the Raiders theme)? Both of those pieces appeared only in part in the films, and they are certainly excellent pieces from a world class composer. I prefer the alternate version of the end credits to Empire (presented on the 4-disc anthology) to the version used in the film. There is much to be said for alternate takes and concert recordings.

I think an excellent idea for the Phantom Menace score would be to print an additional CD of alternates, concert versions, and pieces left off the first CD (so us film score geeks can get down and dirty with Williams's new score), and when the film appears on DVD (please?) we can get an isolated score track to have the whole thing in order. That way we don't miss a minute of Williams's genius if we don't want to, and those, like Mr. Carpenter, who prefer an enjoyable listen to a completist CD (I have to admit, the new CE3k is a tough listen) can buy just the single first disc and enjoy the score that way.

To sum my ramblings all up, Lukas, your poll doesn't reflect the middle ground. I think that sometimes more is better for score albums, and sometimes I don't. It all depends on the score itself, how good it is apart from the film, and how much it is liked by the CD buying public.

From: "Michael Matessino" <mikem@sharplinearts.com>

As the individual responsible for the sequencing of the complete chronological soundtracks for the STAR WARS TRILOGY Special Edition, and having recently completed a similar release for SUPERMAN, I thought it appropriate to address the debate du jour: the pros and cons of comprehensive score albums.

On the aesthetic level, I think we have to go back to Deems Taylor's introduction in FANTASIA, where he explains that there are three kinds of music -- music that tells a story, music that paints a picture, and music that exists for its own sake. When it an opportunity to release an expanded score album arises and a producer has to determine whether or not to sequence it chronologically, it comes down to one simple question: does it work?

I would argue that for the STAR WARS Trilogy, the answer would be basically yes. For one thing, the films contain music practically wall-to-wall, so one piece of music is inherently designed to lead into the next, with few exceptions. Within the confines of the original double-LP, and the conventions of the day, I agree that the editorial work that was done made for an interesting and representative musical experience in 1977, but to this day I cannot understand segues such as the one going from the entrance into the Death Star back to Luke meeting Ben Kenobi in the desert and then to the streets of Mos Eisley (with unnecessary cuts yet). I agree that the score for RETURN OF THE JEDI contains a good deal of what has been called "utility music," but once you've established a pattern you have to follow through, and that point, hardcore fans would have accepted nothing less than the long overdue dropping of the other shoe. Even so, JEDI plays well as a grand epic adventure score, to which one can imagine a variety of stories, in some ways coming off as the most Wagnerian of the three.

SUPERMAN also seems to play well in this kind of assembly, because, like STAR WARS, there is a detectable narrative progression in the music. This is not true, in my opinion, of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND, where the music assists in creating the drama, rather than mostly commenting on it like the music for STAR WARS does. Had I been involved with CE3K (and I did try to be), I would not have assembled the score in perfect chronology, with the exception of the final 40 minutes. Since up to that point the score does not "play through" the action, some clever thematic grouping was called for, I think. The final result should have been a painted picture rather than a narrative story told with music. A similar approach was called for with E.T. THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL, which should have retained all the contents of the original album and then filled out the CD capacity with another 30 minutes of substantial cues. This is what seemed to make the most sense, since the laserdisc special edition had an isolated music track where all the unreleased cues would have had a home.

With regard to STAR WARS/EPISODE ONE, first of all let's remember that no one has heard the music yet. While I'm sure that John Williams applies his own aesthetic sensibilities to the contents of his albums, he does so within the parameters of what is essentially a good business decision. The goal is always to reach the people and make them want to see the movie again, and if casual buyers pick up the soundtrack and find that it's 140 minutes and full of archival tracks like alternates and so forth, the impression will be that soundtracks are heady intellectual things, when all they really want is something that reminds them of the movie.

Also, despite its apparent crassness, it would be bad business form to play all the cards right away. The upcoming new STAR WARS trilogy will be going on for six years, with interim video releases coming in the years between each new film's premiere. There are plenty of opportunities for additional volumes and expanded scores because it will be important to keep interest going. Yes, it means the consumers would have to buy it again, but these things wouldn't get produced if people didn't want them. It's important to always be ready for all possibilities by having something new to sell, and holding back on an hour of music is simply good business, given the nature of the product and its very specific market.

There's also an issue of timing. The comprehensive albums for STAR WARS, EMPIRE, and JEDI were right for their time -- 20 years after the release of the first STAR WARS, following a few years after a boxed set compilation, and released on the eve of the beginning of the new films. To do the same thing right away with EPISODE ONE would rob it of its virginity too quickly. Let it be what it is, and give it a chance to gain a following and grow into something, and let yourselves grow into a true, rather than automated, desire for more (if in fact the music inspires that). Then, at some point during the STAR WARS mania that is sure to dominate the next six years of entertainment news -- provided all the planets mentioned above align themselves -- you may see the score for EPISODE ONE regenerate itself in a new form.

From: SRHanson <srh@shore.net>

On the heated topic of how much music is released to a CD, I believe I find myself in the center of the argument. Everyone has their own opinions on what they consider "good" music. For instance, Sean's comment in the Apr 13 article, that "there's a lot of utility music in a score" is a touchy subject. In one score, I find that "utility music" to be some of the best stuff in the score and many times very interesting (like Boba Fett's motif, or some of the neat things that Jerry does in his scores that sometimes only last a second or two). It gives you a sense of how the composer wanted to play on the emotions of those watching the film (often times for those who are oblivious to the music, but are affected by it nonetheless). In another score, this utility music is just that - emotional filler - and its inclusion to some score albums have really just ruined some CD listening experiences of mine (I won't name any for fear of starting a war, screw me for having an opinion different from someone else's).

Now in the case of the recent expansions (Poltergeist, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Star Trek: TMP, etc.,) it took a really great classic score that people have been in love with for many years to receive the expanded treatment. I think that initially when a score CD comes out, we as the very small group of film score enthusiasts, should be grateful that we're getting anything at all. If the score is great, then give it at least until its 10th anniversary for a full score release. If it's really phenomenal, there will be a follow up album such as the case with Lionheart, Titanic or Gettysburg.

The point that I think everyone is trying to make with a full Phantom Menace release is that they just don't want to have to wait 20 years for a full release of a new Star Wars score. True no one's heard it yet, but it IS Star Wars. I really can't blame them but let's consider the facts. In this case, Sony paid an amazing $5.5 MILLION for the rights to release this music. I don't think they're gonna let that just blow away in the breeze. And c'mon, let's have a little more faith in John Williams who is producing this album.

Having this said, I can't vote in the current poll unless it be specified which release is being talked about here: in the case of an initial release, I think that it should be, as you state, "reasonably representative of the total work, but be fashioned into a coherent listening experience, even if it means omitting cues and changing their sequence." In the case of scores that have been released for many years and have grown to be loved by so many, go for every note of music in an expanded release. For instance, the upcoming Superman release is a good example, but I think the world of film music fans could do without an expanded release consisting of every note from Gidget Goes To Rome ;)

From: Hal Jackson <h.w.jackson@larc.nasa.gov>

Thought I would lend my two cents. I've always favored having complete score CD's, and more often than not find it desirable to have the score as the composer intended (often, directors use cues in different places, etc.)

I like the opportunity to hear and absorb the music as it was written for the film; I disklike the practice of "recomposing on track" to create a more "listenable" experience. One of the earliest albums to do this was RCA's double album of John Green's score to RAINTREE COUNTY (1957). That album is full of hideous edits, bars are snipped out here and there. I find myself wanting to watch the film instead of listening to the album in cases like that. To me, it's as unnatural to have a score edited just to make a "listenable" album. To me, it's like settling for the version of Stravinsky's RITE OF SPRING used in FANTASIA and settling for it for the real thing (FANTASIA used a heavily abridged version of the piece). I was always annoyed with Williams' edits in the original STAR WARS album. The HOOK CD contains an unforgiveable snip of over one minute (in the banquet scene, it is this incredible horn/chime passage).

I understand that composers are often the source of these edits. I don't always defer to the composer's opinion; throughout music history, you'll find composers hating works of theirs the public has loved (Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture is the best example of this).

It's true that a number of scores, in their entireity, would make for a boring and repetitive listen. A complete score edition is what was written and recorded for the film -- let people pick and choose what they like. I'd rather have too much than too little.

From: JSchuer416@aol.com

Come on, Lukas. It's a matter of wanting to hear all of the music so we can have that "meaningful reaction" to ALL OF IT. You even stated yourself in one of your past columns on STAR WARS music that one of the thematic connections in JEDI was lost until you could hear the whole score in sequence. You're making quite an assumption that those who want to hear the entire score are doing it only as an exercise in counting minutes. We just don't want to be left frustrated that our favorite piece of score is buried under a bunch of sound effects and dialogue. Why do we know this will happen? Because it happened with RAIDERS (the submarine sequence), JEDI (the Luke/Vader battle), SUPERMAN (the helicopter sequence), CE3K (most of the finale), the list goes on and on...

Geez, I love your magazine and site, but referring to the desires of over half your readers as "dumb" is not exactly a "meaningful reaction" to the desires expressed here. Sure, using the word "dumb" is provocative - but on an emotional level, not an intellectual one.

More later....

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